Hi. There is a serious problem in watchlist queue at the last hours. The edits that one already read do not disappear from the Watchlist. If I use the rcfilter "unseen changes" I can see also all the edits I already read, but not in bold - what is definitely impossible for this filter (see safemode screenshot below). When I use the Global Watchlist, the edits I read do not disappear from the list for hours. This also means that the problem exists on multiple wikis. I believe there is a need for "Unbreak Now!" phabricator ticket, and do not file it by myself because I have no way to get reconstruction steps. Hopely the developers could check the queue and fix the problem. Thank you, Igal (User:IKhitron) https://imgur.com/a/zoEraFl
On Mon, 2020-12-28 at 19:01 +0200, יגאל חיטרון wrote:
There is a serious problem in watchlist queue at the last hours.
Hi, please see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug (or point people who experience the problem to that page).
Thanks, andre
I know this. I've explained exactly why I can't file a ticket. Igal
בתאריך יום ב׳, 28 בדצמ׳ 2020, 21:47, מאת Andre Klapper < aklapper@wikimedia.org>:
On Mon, 2020-12-28 at 19:01 +0200, יגאל חיטרון wrote:
There is a serious problem in watchlist queue at the last hours.
Hi, please see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug (or point people who experience the problem to that page).
Thanks, andre
-- Andre Klapper (he/him) | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Mon, 2020-12-28 at 22:44 +0200, יגאל חיטרון wrote:
I know this. I've explained exactly why I can't file a ticket. Igal
I read that. I explained which link to follow to report this in the correct place: in the issue tracker. Sometimes exact steps to reproduce are not known [yet] and that can be fine initially - in that case the reporter should provide the steps to reproduce that the reporter knows.
Cheers, andre
I already tryed this approach a couple of times, and every time you said not to report if I have no full reproducing algorithm. Igal
בתאריך יום ג׳, 29 בדצמ׳ 2020, 11:40, מאת Andre Klapper < aklapper@wikimedia.org>:
On Mon, 2020-12-28 at 22:44 +0200, יגאל חיטרון wrote:
I know this. I've explained exactly why I can't file a ticket. Igal
I read that. I explained which link to follow to report this in the correct place: in the issue tracker. Sometimes exact steps to reproduce are not known [yet] and that can be fine initially - in that case the reporter should provide the steps to reproduce that the reporter knows.
Cheers, andre -- Andre Klapper (he/him) | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Tue, 2020-12-29 at 13:53 +0200, יגאל חיטרון wrote:
I already tryed this approach a couple of times, and every time you said not to report if I have no full reproducing algorithm.
I don't think so. I can rather imagine that I asked to always follow https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug with all its bits and pieces (how to structure bug reports, to include sufficient info such as links and browser info, making sure no gadgets interfere, etc).
Cheers, andre
Sure. As you said, this very link requires full reproduction steps. Igal
בתאריך יום ג׳, 29 בדצמ׳ 2020, 17:19, מאת Andre Klapper < aklapper@wikimedia.org>:
On Tue, 2020-12-29 at 13:53 +0200, יגאל חיטרון wrote:
I already tryed this approach a couple of times, and every time you said not to report if I have no full reproducing algorithm.
I don't think so. I can rather imagine that I asked to always follow https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug with all its bits and pieces (how to structure bug reports, to include sufficient info such as links and browser info, making sure no gadgets interfere, etc).
Cheers, andre -- Andre Klapper (he/him) | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Tue, 2020-12-29 at 20:14 +0200, יגאל חיטרון wrote:
Sure. As you said, this very link requires full reproduction steps.
No. It says "Full details of the issue, giving as much detail as possible."
andre
This discussion does not concern the list, please continue it in private if you need to.
On Tue, 2020-12-29 at 13:53 +0200, יגאל חיטרון wrote:
I already tryed this approach a couple of times, and every time you said not to report if I have no full reproducing algorithm.
Yeah, I also had to deal with such unhelpful responses before. Some advice to avoid this:
Customer service rule no. 1: listen to the customer. It's not helpful to argue and I'd assume that's not what Andre's employer expects from him. Rule no. 2: be helpful. If he can't help in understanding the issue, as a last resort he can create a minimal bug report himself, if the customer is not comfortable to do so.
It seems Andre is the primary contact for users, so enrolling to a customer service training course might help him better represent the WMF and fulfill his task. I think the WMF with all the new plans would gladly support that course monetarily, as it would greatly benefit the community and the image of the WMF.
Happy festivities, Tom
On Tue, 2020-12-29 at 18:37 +0000, Tom Doles via Wikitech-l wrote: Yeah, I also had to deal with such unhelpful responses before.
I'm sorry to hear that. The process of gathering sufficient info in tickets can unfortunately sometimes be confusing, surprising, or frustrating, given the many technical Wikimedia areas and complexity.
Some advice to avoid this:
Customer service rule no. 1: listen to the customer. It's not helpful to argue and I'd assume that's not what Andre's employer expects from him.
There might be a misunderstanding:
Phabricator is an issue tracker where people interact in their many different roles (readers, editors, developers, managers, translators, document writers, designers, etc etc etc). Anyone can report Wikimedia related technical issues there, by following https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug
If you are looking for a 'customer service' support venue, then you may want to check https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk for MediaWiki, or https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech for tech issues on Wikimedia wikis, or contact the OTRS mail queues.
Regarding [part of] my work, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bugwrangler tries to outline some duties. (As I was explicitly mentioned.)
Hope that helps a bit. :)
Cheers, andre
În mar., 29 dec. 2020 la 23:46, Andre Klapper aklapper@wikimedia.org a scris:
On Tue, 2020-12-29 at 18:37 +0000, Tom Doles via Wikitech-l wrote: Yeah, I also had to deal with such unhelpful responses before.
I'm sorry to hear that. The process of gathering sufficient info in tickets can unfortunately sometimes be confusing, surprising, or frustrating, given the many technical Wikimedia areas and complexity.
Some advice to avoid this:
Customer service rule no. 1: listen to the customer. It's not helpful to argue and I'd assume that's not what Andre's employer expects from him.
There might be a misunderstanding:
Not a misunderstanding, more like a difference in the chosen meaning of the term. I think what Tom was suggesting is that the bugwrangler, just like anyone doing any commercial activity in this world, has customers to which they provide a service - in this case, the services described at [[:mw:Bugwrangler]] [0].and specifically the following line: "Work with members of the community who report bugs to clarify any ambiguity in the bug descriptions and get all the information required to reproduce the bugs", For the purposes of this thread, your customers are the members of the community which take from their time to report bugs.
The "rules" described in Tom's email are good practices that can be encountered, under different forms, in many companies' core values. [1] While WMF does not put them this high, I would not dismiss them as "not my job". My suggestion would be to ask for more constructive feedback instead: * Why is the "How to report a bug" page not helpful? * Where do you need more info? * How can the bugwrangler help more while keeping in mind he needs to scale his methods to hundreds or thousands of bug reporters every month?
[0] As a sidenote, I personally find that page to be comprehensive and providing an appropriate level of detail [1] https://builtin.com/company-culture/company-core-values-examples
Phabricator is an issue tracker where people interact in their many different roles (readers, editors, developers, managers, translators, document writers, designers, etc etc etc). Anyone can report Wikimedia related technical issues there, by following https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug
If you are looking for a 'customer service' support venue, then you may want to check https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk for MediaWiki, or https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech for tech issues on Wikimedia wikis, or contact the OTRS mail queues.
Regarding [part of] my work, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bugwrangler tries to outline some duties. (As I was explicitly mentioned.)
Hope that helps a bit. :)
Same here :)
Strainu
Cheers, andre
-- Andre Klapper (he/him) | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Pe marți, 29 decembrie 2020, Andre Klapper aklapper@wikimedia.org a scris:
On Tue, 2020-12-29 at 20:14 +0200, יגאל חיטרון wrote:
Sure. As you said, this very link requires full reproduction steps.
No. It says "Full details of the issue, giving as much detail as possible."
That's just... Confusing. I can totally understand why someone would feel discouraged from logging an issue. How about "Full details of the issue, giving all the information you currently have. If that is insufficient you will be asked for additional information along with guidance on how to obtain it."?
An example of what "minimized steps" means might also be a good idea.
Strainu
andre
Andre Klapper (he/him) | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Tue, 2020-12-29 at 21:24 +0200, Strainu wrote:
Pe marți, 29 decembrie 2020, Andre Klapper a scris:
No. It says "Full details of the issue, giving as much detail as possible."
That's just... Confusing. I can totally understand why someone would feel discouraged from logging an issue. How about "Full details of the issue, giving all the information you currently have. If that is insufficient you will be asked for additional information along with guidance on how to obtain it."?
An example of what "minimized steps" means might also be a good idea.
Feel free to edit / improve the wiki page. :)
Thanks a lot! andre
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