Hi 0x0000,
<quote name="0x0000" date="2013-07-28" time="23:35:19 +0200">
hi, recently i tested several sites who are using https, most of them communicate with my chromium-webbrowser over TLS 1.1, but wikipedia/wikimedia still is using TLS 1.0. ssllabs (see link below) shows a warning notice that you should upgrade to the newer version, i dont think there is a urgent security reason for this but even if its only preventive upgarding wouldn't be wrong, right?
example: https://encrypted.google.com/ TLS 1.1 https://mega.co.nz/ TLS 1.1 https://www.ixquick.com/ TLS 1.1 https://btc-e.com/ TLS 1.1 https://www.wsws.org/ TLS 1.1 https://linksunten.indymedia.org/ TLS 1.1 https://en.wikipedia.org TLS 1.0 https://commons.wikimedia.org/ TLS 1.0 https://www.taz.de/ TLS 1.0 https://duckduckgo.com/ TLS 1.0
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=https://en.wikipedia.org
hopefully at the right mailinglist, greetings 0x0000@anche.no
In this reply I just included wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org, which is probably a better place than the Wikidata specific mailing list.
Best,
Greg
That ssllabs link also shows that wikimedia has RC4 encryption enabled on SSL connections, which offers no real security. This is apparently related to the TLS 1.0 -vs- TLS 1.1/1.2 issue: https://community.qualys.com/blogs/securitylabs/2013/03/19/rc4-in-tls-is-bro... --scott
Unless things have changed, one of the issues is that in Apache, you cannot change the TLS cipher suite based on the version number. This is important because to ensure proper security, we'd want to make sure TLS 1.0 users only use RC4 while TLS 1.1 users only use a block cipher. Because this isn't supported, the only option we have is to just disable TLS 1.1 entirely. The ops team can correct me if this is at all incorrect.
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:51 PM, C. Scott Ananian cananian@wikimedia.orgwrote:
That ssllabs link also shows that wikimedia has RC4 encryption enabled on SSL connections, which offers no real security. This is apparently related to the TLS 1.0 -vs- TLS 1.1/1.2 issue:
https://community.qualys.com/blogs/securitylabs/2013/03/19/rc4-in-tls-is-bro... --scott
-- (http://cscott.net)
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On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:51 AM, C. Scott Ananian cananian@wikimedia.orgwrote:
That ssllabs link also shows that wikimedia has RC4 encryption enabled on SSL connections, which offers no real security. This is apparently related to the TLS 1.0 -vs- TLS 1.1/1.2 issue:
https://community.qualys.com/blogs/securitylabs/2013/03/19/rc4-in-tls-is-bro... --scott
Well, you can either be vulnerable to BEAST or to the less practical attack against RC4. TLS 1.1/1.2 clients should choose the strongest cipher, while SSL3/TLS1 clients are sent a preferred server list, specifying RC4 first. See: http://wiki.nginx.org/HttpSslModule#ssl_prefer_server_ciphers.
- Ryan
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Ryan Lane rlane32@gmail.com wrote:
Well, you can either be vulnerable to BEAST or to the less practical attack against RC4. TLS 1.1/1.2 clients should choose the strongest cipher, while SSL3/TLS1 clients are sent a preferred server list, specifying RC4 first. See: http://wiki.nginx.org/HttpSslModule#ssl_prefer_server_ciphers.
Shows how much I know. Didn't realize we use nginx for our TLS servers. Ignore what I said.
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
Le 29/07/13 21:33, Tyler Romeo a écrit :
Shows how much I know. Didn't realize we use nginx for our TLS servers. Ignore what I said.
We do have various Apache servers serving HTTPS, although that is not the content projects (wikipedia, wikiversity..).
Am 29.07.2013 21:31, schrieb Ryan Lane:
That ssllabs link also shows that wikimedia has RC4 encryption enabled on SSL connections, which offers no real security. This is apparently related to the TLS 1.0 -vs- TLS 1.1/1.2 issue:
https://community.qualys.com/blogs/securitylabs/2013/03/19/rc4-in-tls-is-bro... --scott
Ryan:
check with https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/
Example for https://en.wikipedia.org https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=en.wikipedia.org
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Thomas Gries mail@tgries.de wrote:
Am 29.07.2013 21:31, schrieb Ryan Lane:
That ssllabs link also shows that wikimedia has RC4 encryption enabled on SSL connections, which offers no real security. This is apparently related to the TLS 1.0 -vs- TLS 1.1/1.2 issue:
https://community.qualys.com/blogs/securitylabs/2013/03/19/rc4-in-tls-is-bro...
--scott
Ryan:
check with https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/
Example for https://en.wikipedia.org https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=en.wikipedia.org
I did. I also offered an explanation as to why we're using RC4. I'm going to add a proper block cipher to the config for TLS1.2 soon, but the rest need to use RC4.
- Ryan
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Thomas Gries mail@tgries.de wrote:
Am 29.07.2013 21:31, schrieb Ryan Lane:
That ssllabs link also shows that wikimedia has RC4 encryption enabled on SSL connections, which offers no real security. This is apparently related to the TLS 1.0 -vs- TLS 1.1/1.2 issue:
https://community.qualys.com/blogs/securitylabs/2013/03/19/rc4-in-tls-is-bro...
--scott
Ryan:
check with https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/
Example for https://en.wikipedia.org https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=en.wikipedia.org
We do better than the check site itself ;-)
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=ssllabs.com
-Chad
Yeah, I think MediaWiki has much more important security issues to worry about than their TLS configurations. :P
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Thomas Gries mail@tgries.de wrote:
Am 29.07.2013 21:31, schrieb Ryan Lane:
That ssllabs link also shows that wikimedia has RC4 encryption enabled on SSL connections, which offers no real security. This is apparently related to the TLS 1.0 -vs- TLS 1.1/1.2 issue:
https://community.qualys.com/blogs/securitylabs/2013/03/19/rc4-in-tls-is-bro...
--scott
Ryan:
check with https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/
Example for https://en.wikipedia.org https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=en.wikipedia.org
We do better than the check site itself ;-)
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=ssllabs.com
-Chad _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Au contraire: I think WMF has a responsibility to ensure the safety and security of its editors, who might be working on topics controversial in their home regions. --scott On Jul 29, 2013 9:36 PM, "Tyler Romeo" tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
Yeah, I think MediaWiki has much more important security issues to worry about than their TLS configurations. :P
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Thomas Gries mail@tgries.de wrote:
Am 29.07.2013 21:31, schrieb Ryan Lane:
That ssllabs link also shows that wikimedia has RC4 encryption
enabled
on SSL connections, which offers no real security. This is
apparently
related to the TLS 1.0 -vs- TLS 1.1/1.2 issue:
https://community.qualys.com/blogs/securitylabs/2013/03/19/rc4-in-tls-is-bro...
--scott
Ryan:
check with https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/
Example for https://en.wikipedia.org https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=en.wikipedia.org
We do better than the check site itself ;-)
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=ssllabs.com
-Chad _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:34 PM, C. Scott Ananian cananian@wikimedia.orgwrote:
Au contraire: I think WMF has a responsibility to ensure the safety and security of its editors, who might be working on topics controversial in their home regions. --scott
I agree. I'm just saying there are so many other security issues to choose from that this one is almost irrelevant.
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 7:34 PM, C. Scott Ananian cananian@wikimedia.orgwrote:
Au contraire: I think WMF has a responsibility to ensure the safety and security of its editors, who might be working on topics controversial in their home regions.
Obviously, which is why our SSL security is currently relatively good.
On that note, I'll be pushing in a change soonish to add GCM cipher support for TLS 1.2. I don't believe it's possible to have TLS 1.1 use a block cipher while TLS 1 uses RC4 when using a server cipher list, at least not in nginx nor apache.
- Ryan
I agree. I'm just saying there are so many other security issues to choose from that this one is almost irrelevant.
Specifically? Are there bugs filed for them? I'm personally not aware of any serious security issues currently affecting us (Obviously I don't have access to security bugs, but I don't have the impression there are serious issues affecting us).
-bawolff
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:25 PM, Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com wrote:
Specifically? Are there bugs filed for them? I'm personally not aware of any serious security issues currently affecting us (Obviously I don't have access to security bugs, but I don't have the impression there are serious issues affecting us).
Password hashing, CSRF for anonymous users, the fact that we don't require TLS for logins...
They all have bugs filed I believe.
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
Seems we had the protocols listed explicitly (to disable SSL2) and TLS1.1/1.2 weren't available in the past when we were using Ubuntu 10.04. We've been on 12.04 for a while, but the protocol list wasn't updated. I'm pushing an updated config now. Thanks for letting us know!
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Greg Grossmeier greg@wikimedia.orgwrote:
Hi 0x0000,
<quote name="0x0000" date="2013-07-28" time="23:35:19 +0200"> > hi, > recently i tested several sites who are using https, most of them > communicate with my chromium-webbrowser over TLS 1.1, but > wikipedia/wikimedia still is using TLS 1.0. > ssllabs (see link below) shows a warning notice that you should > upgrade to the newer version, i dont think there is a urgent > security reason for this but even if its only preventive upgarding > wouldn't be wrong, right? > > example: > https://encrypted.google.com/ TLS 1.1 > https://mega.co.nz/ TLS 1.1 > https://www.ixquick.com/ TLS 1.1 > https://btc-e.com/ TLS 1.1 > https://www.wsws.org/ TLS 1.1 > https://linksunten.indymedia.org/ TLS 1.1 > https://en.wikipedia.org TLS 1.0 > https://commons.wikimedia.org/ TLS 1.0 > https://www.taz.de/ TLS 1.0 > https://duckduckgo.com/ TLS 1.0 > > > https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=https://en.wikipedia.org > > > hopefully at the right mailinglist, greetings 0x0000@anche.no
In this reply I just included wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org, which is probably a better place than the Wikidata specific mailing list.
Best,
Greg
-- | Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E | | identi.ca: @greg A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
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