I may be mistaken, but I thought voting was enabled for the product VisualEditor, and now it is not.
Could someone confirm this?
It is currently disabled for: Commons App Huggle openZIM Parsoid (Spam) Tool Labs tools VisualEditor Wiki Loves Monuments WikiLoves Monuments Mobile Wikimedia Labs Wikipedia App
Voting provides a way to watch a bug without sending any bugmail. It also lets people do a +1 without adding a comment.
Is the reason for disabling voting because of perception that large numbers of votes magically creates new developers? If so, would it be re-enabled if the voting interface was relabelled and better documented. i.e.
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34490
-- John Vandenberg
John, thanks for the email. I know Andre Klapper has put "figure out whether and how we want to deal with votes in Bugzilla" on the long-term list of things people ought to do. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Task_list#Tasks_that_require_s... and look at the third top-level bullet: "Voting in Bugzilla: Some products support it, some don't." (That section has some ideas and links.)
Andre will probably reply onlist once he gets in Monday morning Prague time, but I just figured I'd mention this quickly.
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Sumana Harihareswara <sumanah@wikimedia.org
wrote:
John, thanks for the email. I know Andre Klapper has put "figure out whether and how we want to deal with votes in Bugzilla" on the long-term list of things people ought to do. See
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Task_list#Tasks_that_require_s... and look at the third top-level bullet: "Voting in Bugzilla: Some products support it, some don't." (That section has some ideas and links.)
Andre will probably reply onlist once he gets in Monday morning Prague time, but I just figured I'd mention this quickly.
I've always been in favor of getting rid of voting entirely since developers don't use it for judging anything. Tried to once before, but people seem to like using it for bookmarking or somesuch and I didn't feel like fighting about it.
-Chad
On 29/07/13 16:09, Chad wrote:
I've always been in favor of getting rid of voting entirely since developers don't use it for judging anything. Tried to once before, but people seem to like using it for bookmarking or somesuch and I didn't feel like fighting about it.
I appreciate having votes on bugs, as a measure of the popularity of a feature request. The Score extension would never have been implemented and deployed if it wasn't for voting.
Maybe no developer other than me ever looks at vote counts, but maybe other developers should start. WMF team priorities tend to be set based on the opinions of a very small number of people. Sometimes it's nice to know what users actually want most, rather than just what some WMF staff member thinks they might like.
-- Tim Starling
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Tim Starling tstarling@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On 29/07/13 16:09, Chad wrote:
I've always been in favor of getting rid of voting entirely since
developers
don't use it for judging anything. Tried to once before, but people seem
to
like using it for bookmarking or somesuch and I didn't feel like fighting about it.
I appreciate having votes on bugs, as a measure of the popularity of a feature request. The Score extension would never have been implemented and deployed if it wasn't for voting.
Maybe no developer other than me ever looks at vote counts, but maybe other developers should start. WMF team priorities tend to be set based on the opinions of a very small number of people. Sometimes it's nice to know what users actually want most, rather than just what some WMF staff member thinks they might like.
If we want to start using it I'm not inherently opposed to the idea. I just don't like the status quo where people think it means something when it (mostly) doesn't.
-Chad
Hi,
On Mon, 2013-07-29 at 11:06 +1000, John Vandenberg wrote:
I may be mistaken, but I thought voting was enabled for the product VisualEditor, and now it is not.
At least for the last nine months, it has not been enabled for VisualEditor. Don't know if it ever was enabled, but I assume not.
Voting provides a way to watch a bug without sending any bugmail. It also lets people do a +1 without adding a comment.
Voting is not meant for "watching" a bug but for expressing support to handle a report, that's also why it's not called "Watching". :) The CC list is meant to get notifications on bug report changes.
Note that the argument "without sending any bugmail" only applies when an individual has set its bugmail settings to "notify me when the CC list changes". Anybody can change her/his settings: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
Is the reason for disabling voting because of perception that large numbers of votes magically creates new developers?
I might not understand the question correctly, but does that imply that somebody is against creating new developers?
The main reason for not enabling voting everywhere is that votes need to be considered a source of input in the planning process. If votes do not influence decisions, users just get fooled. My current feeling is that votes in bug reports do not influence any decisions, so I personally support switching them off entirely.
If so, would it be re-enabled if the voting interface was relabelled and better documented. i.e.
This is a discussion that should likely happen in upstream Bugzilla development - I myself currently don't plan to put any resources into changing or relabeling Bugzilla's voting interface, as from my personal point of view it lacks way too many things to be useful.
andre
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Andre Klapper aklapper@wikimedia.org wrote:
The main reason for not enabling voting everywhere is that votes need to be considered a source of input in the planning process. If votes do not influence decisions, users just get fooled.
Yes. Absolutely agreed. Let's not have it just as a feel-good thing that isn't really influencing anything.
My current feeling is that votes in bug reports do not influence any decisions, so I personally support switching them off entirely.
I'd like to keep them at least for the Wikidata-related bugs. The votes there are taken into account.
Cheers Lydia
On 29 July 2013 09:38, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Andre Klapper aklapper@wikimedia.org wrote:
My current feeling is that votes in bug reports do not influence any decisions, so I personally support switching them off entirely.
I'd like to keep them at least for the Wikidata-related bugs. The votes there are taken into account.
Change the wording to be useful. I like the way Launchpad does it: "this bug also affects me" (tickbox) Though I don't think that adds people to a CC list.
- d.
David, for a previous discussion on renames see https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34490 John, for Visualeditor https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49728
Nemo
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Marc A. Pelletier marc@uberbox.orgwrote:
Right now, it's the Bugzilla equivalent of the "close doors" button on most elevators. :-)
Kind of off topic, but the close doors button on elevators work. They are mandated by law to be operational. Crosswalk buttons would be a better analogy. :P
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_button would be a better reference. It also contains a correct description of the function (or lack thereof) of the 'door close' button. ;) --scott
On Mon, 2013-07-29 at 10:38 +0200, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
I'd like to keep them at least for the Wikidata-related bugs. The votes there are taken into account.
That is great to hear and good to know!
So I assume that you go to https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/query.cgi?query_format=advanced , select the components that you maintain and only include tickets that are in open state, retrieve the search results (list of open tickets), and sort the results by the "Votes" column?
For others on this list that would also like to see the Votes displayed for tickets in the search results: Click "Change Columns" at the bottom of buglist.cgi and move "Votes" from "Available Columns" to "Selected Columns".
Note: Changing the columns in search results is also explained in http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/2013/06/21/bugzillatips-changecolumns/
Technical note: Voting in Bugzilla can be enabled on a product level only, not per component (as the Wikidata components are under the "MediaWiki extensions" product in Bugzilla).
andre
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Andre Klapper aklapper@wikimedia.org wrote:
So I assume that you go to https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/query.cgi?query_format=advanced , select the components that you maintain and only include tickets that are in open state, retrieve the search results (list of open tickets), and sort the results by the "Votes" column?
I personally filter for all open bugs that have wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org as assignee or cc and then sort by vote, yes. I have a saved search for that. I look at these roughly weekly to see if this still matches what I hear elsewhere in the community. I do not only take votes into account because of course a lot of people don't use bugzilla and even fewer vote there. In addition I've heard a few too many "I'm not voting because it doesn't change anything anyway" for my taste. Guess that's a matter of training of the past years -.-
Cheers Lydia
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org