After reading the entire thread I've got several responses:
On Wed Jul 21 22:27:44 UTC 2010, Ariel T. Glenn ariel at
wikimedia.org wrote:
It's much worse than that. On the Wiktionary
projects, which have the
modest goal of documenting all words in all languages *on each language
edition*, you can expect to find german, french, arabic, etc. lemmas on
say the russian project. Even worse, you can expect to find multiple
lemmas on one page if the lemma has the same orthography in more than
one language. If the sort order differs between languages it's loads of
fun.
Ariel
Something that comes to mind is Wikimedia Commons. Would the same category with
a different
uselang be sorted differently ?
So far in this thread I've read that the current idea is to have different
sorting depending on language.
The language would be set to a certain default per wiki. And it would be
possible to overwrite that per
page or per category with a certain parser function (I think that would mean a
certain piece of Technical
metadata in a "Variable" type of Magic word (as defined here:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words#Variables ).
Perhaps an idea is to not set a default per wiki, but a default per language.
That way it doesn't have to
be set for every wiki that is in the same language. And is easily overridable
for multilingual wikis by the
uselang-parameter and/or the user's preference. Ofcourse the magic word would
override that.
Though I don't know much about how a store-order is stored. It may be possible
to maintain it in an
interface message. That way a Germanic category on Commons or Wiktionary could
use something like:
{{SORTORDER:{{MediaWiki:Categorysortorder/de}}}}
On Wed Jul 21 22:18:02 UTC 2010, Daniel Kinzler daniel at brightbyte.de wrote:
Aryeh Gregor schrieb:
* "Categories need to be structured by
namespace",
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=450
* "Natural number sorting in category listings",
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6948
While we definitly need efficient retrieval by namespace, the default sort
key
should *not* include the namespace prefix. it's
very annoying that all files
get
sorted under "F" currently, or that pages
from the Wikipedia namespace all
end
up under "W".
-- daniel
A good example of this are Templates.
The vast majority of templates (as far as I can see) are sorted like this, with
PAGENAME:
[[Category:Special templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]
Setting to false by default may be good. But that would case all
types of things to go mixed up. (except ofcourse for Files, Subcategories those
would be seperated
from 'Pages'). But templates, articles and users would be sorted by pagename.
I'm not sure if that behaviour is good. I dont think it's that bad actually, if
at all.
Being able to set per namespace may be a solution. Not sure yet.
On Fri Jul 23 03:02:49 UTC 2010, Tim Starling tstarling at
wikimedia.org
wrote:
On 23/07/10 02:34, Aryeh Gregor wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Tim Starling <tstarling at wikimedia.org>
wrote:
This restriction is enforced by
Title::isValidMoveOperation().
Any objections to changing this so files can't be moved over non-files
or vice versa?
No objection. That's mostly how it is already, except when the file
doesn't exist but the description page does.
No objection either. However, make sure that the other way around is blocked
too. Else one might
accidently move a page to the File-namespace without being able to get it
back.
-- Krinkle