On Jul 10, 2011, at 9:12 PM, wikitech-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: testing mobile browsers? (Marco Schuster)
2. Parser bugs and their priority (Mark A. Hershberger)
3. Supporting Extension authors (Mark A. Hershberger)
4. Re: all those zeros in tables in text brosers (Aryeh Gregor)
5. Re: Parser bugs and their priority (MZMcBride)
6. Re: testing mobile browsers? (Tomasz Finc)
7. Re: testing mobile browsers? (Tomasz Finc)
8. Re: ?Easy? Bug Triage meeting notes (MZMcBride)
9. Re: Wikimedia engineering report for June 2011 (MZMcBride)
10. Re: Wikimedia engineering report for June 2011 (Ryan Lane)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 22:16:25 +0200
From: Marco Schuster <marco(a)harddisk.is-a-geek.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] testing mobile browsers?
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<CAC6HepSnZjJ9gkU308hZO6eTCXz+Ew4ae5EsN1FkSwzrOfwo9Q(a)mail.gmail.com>
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On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 8:51 PM, H?kon Wium Lie <howcome(a)opera.com> wrote:
Opera comes in two flavors for mobile devices:
Opera Mini and Opera
Mobile. Opera Mobile is, indeed, close to the desktop version in the
sense that it runs the same display, javascript engine etc. on the
device.
The versions of Opera Mobile floating in the wild are kinda different.
Every HTC HD2 user with Windows Mobile 6.5 is likely to still run the
ages-old buggy HTC version (8.x AFAIR, compared to current v10!), as
the "official" versions STILL don't support the multi-touch features
even though libraries exist which abstract the multi-touch -.-
Marco
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 17:01:33 -0400
From: mhershberger(a)wikimedia.org (Mark A. Hershberger)
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Parser bugs and their priority
To: Wikitech List <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <87liw7dv82.fsf(a)everybody.org>
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Recently, there was a discussion on a bug (?UNIQ key exposed?
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/14562) about the priority setting I had
given the bug.
It was part of the problems I found in Bugzilla last December and
gathered into a tracking bug (
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/26213).
It looks like I made the wrong decision on #14562 since it was part of
an extension that, while deployed on enwiki, wasn't likely to be
triggered.
When I was discussing this with Robla, he suggested I ask about this on
wikitech-l, so here goes:
There are at least four bugs live on Wikipedia that leave really ugly
UNIQ strings in the wikitext. I've created a demonstration of them on
my wiki page:
http://hexm.de/4x
The bug numbers are on the page linked to their entry in Bugzilla.
I suppose these are all linked to the parser work that Brion & co are
currently working on, but the arrival of the new parser 6 months to a
year or more away (
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future/Parser_plan),
I'd like to get these sort of parser issues sorted out now.
For those more familar with the current parser: how can those developers
who are less experienced start fixing the problem? How important are
these issues?
Mark.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 17:17:08 -0400
From: mhershberger(a)wikimedia.org (Mark A. Hershberger)
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Supporting Extension authors
To: Wikitech List <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <87hb6vdui3.fsf(a)everybody.org>
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MediaWiki.org is great for extension authors, as far as it goes. Today,
though, someone asked on #mediawiki how to create development branches
for their extension in their SVN repo. I told him I didn't think it
could be done ? that he might have to use the SVN repo as a backend to
push to from git or bzr ? but I'm not sure that answer was correct.
Anyway, as I was writing about the UNIQ tracking bug, I thought of some
documentation and support that we should try to get in place for
extension developers. Since Sumana is creating a lot of good
documentation about testing lately, that is where I started:
* What sort of things should they test?
* Can they have tests that will continue to work against the current
parser and the next one?
* How can they write parser tests and unit tests to try out their
code?
* How can they make sure that those tests are run on the test server?
(I think this actually requires some work on the test server, but?)
Of course, that documentation would help more than just the extension
writers who have ?UNIQ? showing up in their output. What else could we
do to support extension authors?
Mark.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 10:35:42 -0400
From: Aryeh Gregor <Simetrical+wikilist(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] all those zeros in tables in text brosers
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
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On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Niklas Laxstr?m
<niklas.laxstrom(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It exists and it's called data-sort-value
attribute. And it's already
live on Wikipedia as far as I can see.
data-* attributes are only valid in HTML5 and will not work until
$wgHtml5 is set to true. As has been discussed here a number of
times, it's been true on trunk continuously since r53142 (June 12,
2009) and in releases since 1.16, but it hasn't yet been enabled on
Wikimedia sites. Apparently there are finally plans to try enabling
it for Wikimedia in the near future.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 11:34:34 -0400
From: MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Parser bugs and their priority
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <CA3F3ECA.12797%z(a)mzmcbride.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Mark A. Hershberger wrote:
Recently, there was a discussion on a bug
("UNIQ key exposed"
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/14562) about the priority setting I had
given the bug.
[...]
I suppose these are all linked to the parser work
that Brion & co are
currently working on, but the arrival of the new parser 6 months to a
year or more away (
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future/Parser_plan),
I'd like to get these sort of parser issues sorted out now.
For those more familar with the current parser: how can those developers
who are less experienced start fixing the problem? How important are
these issues?
Bugs have a habit of setting their own priority. If these bugs were
regularly being hit by users, they would have been resolved ages ago (in
theory!). But they only appear in very, very strange edge cases, which have
the lowest user impact (not quite zero, but slightly above).
My recommendation would be to add some parser tests for these bugs, mark
them as failing, and if the rewrite doesn't take care of them, re-examine
them then. There are so many more bugs that are affecting so many people.
The fact that you can't combine three types of esoteric wiki syntax in
certain ways currently really shouldn't be a very high concern.
I think that's roughly what Tim was trying to say.
MZMcBride
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 12:57:52 -0700
From: Tomasz Finc <tfinc(a)wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] testing mobile browsers?
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<CAMxhqbduBc8AbVgWTYOc=xPQVORwpUyw44osfNc1-HYSPTZ1sw(a)mail.gmail.com>
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That would be awesome to get in. I've been meaning to chat with Timo
about this. Let me see if there are any others that were seeing.
--tomasz
On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 2:30 AM, Ashar Voultoiz <hashar+wmf(a)free.fr> wrote:
Hello,
Our javascript tests are being run under TestSwarm [1] and we currently
cover up most desktop browsers (thanks brion).
According to our squids stats [2], most of Wikimedia mobile traffic
comes from the following browsers (sorted by popularity):
? - Safari
? - Android
? - Opera
? - Mozilla
? - Blackberry
* Safari, Opera & Mozilla for mobile : they are probably mostly the same
as the desktop version. I have not found emulators for them.
* Android : has an emulator. On my computer it is painfully slow and not
usable for anything.
* Blackberry : emulator is Windows only :-/
Would be great to enhance our testswarm with more browsers. Maybe we
could contact those mobiles developers to connect to our testswarm?
:-)
[1]
http://toolserver.org/~krinkle/testswarm/
[2]
http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportClients.htm
--
Ashar Voultoiz
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 12:58:50 -0700
From: Tomasz Finc <tfinc(a)wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] testing mobile browsers?
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<CAMxhqbesgRQpzAo50VEDhH+tFHruiG18nWO9VHakH0DebDJa3Q(a)mail.gmail.com>
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On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 11:51 AM, H?kon Wium Lie <howcome(a)opera.com> wrote:
> Also sprach Ashar Voultoiz:
>
> ?> Our javascript tests are being run under TestSwarm [1] and we currently
> ?> cover up most desktop browsers (thanks brion).
> ?>
> ?> According to our squids stats [2], most of Wikimedia mobile traffic
> ?> comes from the following browsers (sorted by popularity):
> ?> ? ?- Safari
> ?> ? ?- Android
> ?> ? ?- Opera
> ?> ? ?- Mozilla
> ?> ? ?- Blackberry
> ?>
> ?> * Safari, Opera & Mozilla for mobile : they are probably mostly the same
> ?> as the desktop version. I have not found emulators for them.
>
Opera comes in two flavors for mobile devices:
Opera Mini and Opera
Mobile. Opera Mobile is, indeed, close to the desktop version in the
sense that it runs the same display, javascript engine etc. on the
device.
>
> Opera Mini runs these engines in server parks in the fixed network and
> tranfers a binary representation to a small viewer on the device. We
> currently process around 60 billion pages per month and Wikipedia is
> typically in the top 10 lists in the top 20 countries we publish
> statistics for:
>
> ?http://www.opera.com/smw/2011/05/
>
> In the test swarm link you sent, Opera 10 and 11 are listed, but
> not Opera Mini (which is currently at version 6). Could it be that
> your sniffer doesn't pick up Opera Mini users?
>
> ?http://toolserver.org/~krinkle/testswarm/
>
> Here a sample UA string from a recent version of Opera Mini:
>
> ?Opera/9.80 (Android; Opera Mini/6.24556/25.657; U; en) Presto/2.5.25 Version/10.54
>
> And here's the Opera Mini emulator:
>
> ?http://www.opera.com/mobile/demo/
>
> While Wikipedia remains popular with Opera Mini users, there is a
> technical problem which limits the user experience. Wikipedia uses
> JavaScript to unfold sections in articles. Alas, executing JavaScript
> requires a rountrip to the server (the Opera Mini server, that is)
> which takes time and costs money. It would be better if articles were
> unfolded by default for Opera Mini users.
Open bug already in place .. any takers?
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29517
--tomasz
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:35:57 -0400
From: MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] ?Easy? Bug Triage meeting notes
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <CA3F856D.127C1%z(a)mzmcbride.com>
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Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
On 07/08/2011 02:20 PM, Mark A. Hershberger
wrote:
Still, despite the problems, hosting the triage
in IRC meant that some
developers interested in MediaWiki that Sumana invited were able to
watch and volunteer developers were able able to participate.
Mark: Thanks, as always, for running this triage. I have now added the
relevant bugs to
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Annoying_Little_Bug
which you should feel free to hand out to developers interested in
writing their first MediaWiki patch.
I sporadically made a complementary page (without references) at
<http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Annoying_large_bugs> which lists more complex
(and more exciting) bugs.
The "easy" bugs list is nice, but it doesn't really spark much creative
energy. A second page with more exciting (but harder to implement) bugs
seemed appropriate. :-)
I tried to list bugs that a lot of users are more likely to encounter, both
on Wikimedia wikis and on their personal MediaWiki installs.
MZMcBride
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:09:01 -0400
From: MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia engineering report for June 2011
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <CA3FC56D.127D2%z(a)mzmcbride.com>
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Guillaume Paumier wrote:
[quote]
Summer of Research 2011
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikimedia_Summer_of_Research_2011>
?? Asher Feldman and?Ryan Lane
<http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Ryan_lane> ?created the systems
infrastructure for the Summer of Research team to perform data mining and
analysis work.
[/quote]
Do you have more info about this? It sounds like they're duplicating the
Toolserver, but it's hard to say without knowing more.
MZMcBride
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:12:13 -0500
From: Ryan Lane <rlane32(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia engineering report for June 2011
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<CALKgCA3zuZbGOQYfrwDB--Ju1Rt0f5w0ce6FEMRQHjD7VcqGeQ(a)mail.gmail.com>
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[quote]
Summer of Research 2011
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikimedia_Summer_of_Research_2011>
?? Asher Feldman and?Ryan Lane
<http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Ryan_lane> ?created the systems
infrastructure for the Summer of Research team to perform data mining and
analysis work.
[/quote]
Do you have more info about this? It sounds like they're duplicating the
Toolserver, but it's hard to say without knowing more.
They need access to information not available on the toolserver. This
is just a single virtual machine that has mysql access to a database
replica.
- Ryan
------------------------------
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