Not sure whether the Wikisource community saw this email from Guillaume. I was thinking that maybe we should as a community be looking to avail ourselves of this opportunity to reinvigorate how we collaborate, at least on the holistic issues that we face through use of Mediawiki. We seem to have all wandered off to our own little communities, and doing less in the way of sharing.
I would like to propose that we set up something as a standalone subject within the Wikisource: namespace, or as a subpage of Wikisource:Scriptorium. I was thinking that each subject could be a separate subpage, allowing discussion on talk pages. Then summarising back to the main page which could be reflected back to the WMF community as per the below subject requests.
Things that I see that we could also look to better as a community * Discussions on extensions that could be universally useful * Configurations of tools that have a cross language interest * Better utilising some of the great work that Tpt has been doing on ProofreadPage * Bug issues as we now have regular updates * Better support the smaller WS communities who don't have the people or knowledge resources taht come with a biger community
I know that there has been stuff that has been happening at frWS and enWS that has been shared between us, but we should be doing more broadly.
Regards, Andrew
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Wikitech-ambassadors] Local discussions about how to improve communication between users and developers Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 17:03:52 +0100 From: Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org To: "Coordination of technology deployments across languages/projects" wikitech-ambassadors@lists.wikimedia.org Reply-To: Coordination of technology deployments across languages/projects wikitech-ambassadors@lists.wikimedia.org
Greetings,
Summary: I'm trying to get comments and ideas on how to improve communication between developers and Wikimedia editors, and I'd like to ask the help of people on this list to ask your local communities what they think, and post the results of those discussions here.
Longer version:
Communication between Wikimedia contributors and "tech people" (primarily MediaWiki developers, but also designers and other engineers) hasn't always been ideal. In recent years, Wikimedia employees have made efforts to become more transparent, but what I'd like to discuss today is how we can better engage in true collaboration and 2-way discussion, not just reports and announcements. It's easy to post a link to a new feature that's already been implemented, and tell users "Please provide feedback!". It's much more difficult to truly collaborate every step of the way, from the early planning to deployment.
Some "big" tech projects sponsored by the Wikimedia Foundation are lucky enough to have a Community Liaison who can spend a lot of time discussing with editors, basically incarnating this 2-way communication channel between users and engineering staff. But one person can only do so much: they have to focus on a handful of features, and primarily discusses with the English Wikipedia community. We want to be able to do this for dozens of engineering projects with hundreds of wikis, in many languages, and truly collaborate to build new features together. Hiring hundreds of Community Liaisons isn't really a viable option.
There are probably things in the way we do tech stuff (e.g. new software features and deployments) that drive editors insane. You probably have lots of ideas about what the ideal situation should be, and how to get there: What can the developer community (staff and volunteers) do to get there? (in the short term, medium term, long term?) What can users do to get there?
Instead of just postulating that "The problem is X" and "The solution is obviously Y", I've started an extensive consultation process to learn from users, to hear you, to listen to your complaints and your ideas on how to fix the issues. I'm hoping that this open and collaborative thinking process will yield better results than a one-sided analysis.
An preliminary consultation took place last month with projects in English and French. I've summarized the initial findings and proposals: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_communications/Fall_2012_consultati...
I'm hoping that we can now expand this consultation to more projects and more languages, with your help. It isn't feasible for me to launch a discussion on each wiki in each language, but I'm hoping that you can help me spread this message and start those discussions with your local communities.
I realize this will take some of your time, but I think it's worth spending a little time to discuss this now in order to make big improvements later on how we communicate with each other.
I'm available to answer comments, concerns and questions.
Many thanks for your help!
I'm so glad about this email. I couldn't agree more about the need of a better communication between Wikisources AND between us wikisourcerors and tech people. I think all of us share the idea tha Wikisource is a very important project with a *lot* of potential, and I would definetely want to see it in action.
I don't know which place should we set up for this, I can think of Meta or Wikisource:Scriptorium. I also would like to remember that it is possible to transclude directly a page like that in all Wikisources (as a Village pump subpage).
In the end, could we start telling the devs about this page that was developed by the few of us that were in Wikimania? http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2012_Wikisource_roadmap
Aubrey
On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 12:27 PM, billinghurst billinghurst@gmail.comwrote:
Not sure whether the Wikisource community saw this email from Guillaume. I was thinking that maybe we should as a community be looking to avail ourselves of this opportunity to reinvigorate how we collaborate, at least on the holistic issues that we face through use of Mediawiki. We seem to have all wandered off to our own little communities, and doing less in the way of sharing.
I would like to propose that we set up something as a standalone subject within the Wikisource: namespace, or as a subpage of Wikisource:Scriptorium. I was thinking that each subject could be a separate subpage, allowing discussion on talk pages. Then summarising back to the main page which could be reflected back to the WMF community as per the below subject requests.
Things that I see that we could also look to better as a community
- Discussions on extensions that could be universally useful
- Configurations of tools that have a cross language interest
- Better utilising some of the great work that Tpt has been doing on
ProofreadPage
- Bug issues as we now have regular updates
- Better support the smaller WS communities who don't have the people or
knowledge resources taht come with a biger community
I know that there has been stuff that has been happening at frWS and enWS that has been shared between us, but we should be doing more broadly.
Regards, Andrew
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Wikitech-ambassadors] Local discussions about how to improve communication between users and developers Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 17:03:52 +0100 From: Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org To: "Coordination of technology deployments across languages/projects" wikitech-ambassadors@lists.wikimedia.org Reply-To: Coordination of technology deployments across languages/projects wikitech-ambassadors@lists.wikimedia.org
Greetings,
Summary: I'm trying to get comments and ideas on how to improve communication between developers and Wikimedia editors, and I'd like to ask the help of people on this list to ask your local communities what they think, and post the results of those discussions here.
Longer version:
Communication between Wikimedia contributors and "tech people" (primarily MediaWiki developers, but also designers and other engineers) hasn't always been ideal. In recent years, Wikimedia employees have made efforts to become more transparent, but what I'd like to discuss today is how we can better engage in true collaboration and 2-way discussion, not just reports and announcements. It's easy to post a link to a new feature that's already been implemented, and tell users "Please provide feedback!". It's much more difficult to truly collaborate every step of the way, from the early planning to deployment.
Some "big" tech projects sponsored by the Wikimedia Foundation are lucky enough to have a Community Liaison who can spend a lot of time discussing with editors, basically incarnating this 2-way communication channel between users and engineering staff. But one person can only do so much: they have to focus on a handful of features, and primarily discusses with the English Wikipedia community. We want to be able to do this for dozens of engineering projects with hundreds of wikis, in many languages, and truly collaborate to build new features together. Hiring hundreds of Community Liaisons isn't really a viable option.
There are probably things in the way we do tech stuff (e.g. new software features and deployments) that drive editors insane. You probably have lots of ideas about what the ideal situation should be, and how to get there: What can the developer community (staff and volunteers) do to get there? (in the short term, medium term, long term?) What can users do to get there?
Instead of just postulating that "The problem is X" and "The solution is obviously Y", I've started an extensive consultation process to learn from users, to hear you, to listen to your complaints and your ideas on how to fix the issues. I'm hoping that this open and collaborative thinking process will yield better results than a one-sided analysis.
An preliminary consultation took place last month with projects in English and French. I've summarized the initial findings and proposals:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_communications/Fall_2012_consultati...
I'm hoping that we can now expand this consultation to more projects and more languages, with your help. It isn't feasible for me to launch a discussion on each wiki in each language, but I'm hoping that you can help me spread this message and start those discussions with your local communities.
I realize this will take some of your time, but I think it's worth spending a little time to discuss this now in order to make big improvements later on how we communicate with each other.
I'm available to answer comments, concerns and questions.
Many thanks for your help!
-- Guillaume Paumier Technical Communications Manager — Wikimedia Foundation https://donate.wikimedia.org
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