Hello,
I agree entirely with Dovi and I could not have said it better.
In addition, it would be quite proper to discuss this with the community
there first. There is also a mailing list for Wikisource.
Regards,
Yann
Dovi Jacobs a écrit :
> Hi. The model that Wikisource follows here is similar to Wikiversity:
>
> Just as at Wikiversity, the Wikisource "incubator" is within Wikisource itself. We consider this to be a much more supportive (and better monitored) environment for new languages (rather than the generic incubator.wikimedia.org) for a number of reasons. When such languages are ready, they can then recieve their own subdomains. Until then, they always have a proper place to build their content.
>
> In fact, my personal suggestion is that new test languages for all existing Wikimedia projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks, etc.) should be hosted by those projects themselves, rather than at a generic incubator. The Wikiversity/Wikisource model works very nicely indeed, providing a closer sense of a project-wide environment for new test-languages, with a common logo and framework for parallel new languages in the project, while the generic incubator is rather cold and unfriendly (take a look at its main page). There is no way that a single separate wiki for all new languages in all projects at once can provide proper guidance, supervision, and monitoring. Perhaps the incubator would be better left for testing entirely new Wikimedia projects.
>
> As for the Wikisource portal, because it is at wikisource.org rather than on Meta, you will find that it is much better supported than the portals for other Wikimedia projects, which are often out-of-date ("out-of-site" >> "out-of-mind"), and often have aesthetic or other problems that take longer to fix. People go to Wikisource and make direct suggestions for Portal updates right there at the talk page, and Wikisource admins take care of things immediately because they are always around at the wiki. Here too, this may be a better model than the convention for other projects.
>
> Dovi Jacobs
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Thank you.
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DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of
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"An old, rigid civilization is reluctantly dying. Something new, open,
free and exciting is waking up." -- Ming the Mechanic
Sorry for the French. In short, it is about the release of archives from
Bad Arolsen on the Shoah. It could be interesting for Wikisource.
Yann
=======
Bonjour,
Il peut y avoir des documents intéressants pour Wikisource.
Yann
*mardi 15 mai 2007, 18h44*
*Une commission de 11 pays décide de commencer le transfert des archives
nazies*
Les diplomates de 11 pays se sont mis d'accord mardi pour commencer à
distribuer des copies électroniques de documents provenant des archives
nazies gardées à Bad Arolsen, en Allemagne
<http://fr.fc.yahoo.com/a/allemagne.html>, afin de les mettre pour la
première fois depuis plus d'un demi-siècle à la disposition des
chercheurs travaillant sur la Shoah.
Les onze pays supervisant le Service international de recherches (SIR),
branche du Comité international de la Croix-Rouge qui gère les archives
de Bad Arolsen, ont décidé de commencer dès que possible le transfert
des documents scannés.
Une mesure qui contourne l'obligation légale de garder les documents
confidentiels tant que l'ensemble des 11 pays n'auront pas ratifié
l'accord de 2006 sur l'ouverture des archives. Quatre pays ne l'ont pas
encore fait. La décision de mardi devrait avoir pour effet d'accélérer
de quelques mois la distribution des documents.
Le mémorial de Yad Vashem à Jérusalem a salué la mesure. "Je suis ravi
de voir ce projet avancer", a déclaré son directeur Avner Shalev.
Jusqu'à présent, les volumineuses archives sur la mort, l'esclavage
<http://fr.news.yahoo.com/colonisation.html> ou l'oppression de 17
millions de juifs, Roms et autres victimes des camps de la mort,
n'étaient accessibles qu'aux victimes et à certains membres de leur
famille, et étaient utilisées pour chercher des disparus ou étayer des
demandes d'indemnisation.
Les archives contiennent 30 millions de documents, rangés sur 25
kilomètres d'étagères. La décision de hâter leur transfert vers les
archives nationales des 11 pays vise à éviter de nouveaux retards dans
leur ouverture à des proches de victimes et aux historiens.
Selon le protocole conclu l'an dernier, une seule copie des documents
sera disponible dans chacun des pays et pourra être consultée "sur les
lieux d'un dépôt d'archives approprié". Chaque gouvernement devrait
également prendre en compte "le caractère sensible de certaines
informations" contenues dans les documents.
Les sept pays ayant ratifié le protocole de 2006, qui modifie un traité
de 1955, sont les Etats-Unis <http://fr.fc.yahoo.com/u/usa.html>, Israël
<http://fr.fc.yahoo.com/p/proche-orient.html>, la Pologne
<http://fr.news.yahoo.com/p/pologne.html>, l'Allemagne, la Belgique
<http://fr.fc.yahoo.com/b/belgique.html>, les Pays-Bas et la
Grande-Bretagne <http://fr.fc.yahoo.com/r/ru.html>. En revanche, la
France, la Grèce, l'Italie <http://fr.fc.yahoo.com/i/italie.html> et le
Luxembourg ne l'ont pas encore ratifié. AP
lma/v434/tl
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http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre
http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Bibliothèque libre
http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres
Indeed, interesting for Wikisource.
Yann
============
Hi friends,
A few of us know that I'm very insteresting in having a technical way
to print one article or a set of article as a PDF document.
They are two technical approaches :
* A wiki2pdf tool
* A html2pdf tool
Both do not exist, better : they exists but are not really satisfying.
The arguments behind this opinion are pretty the same than thus I have
used again people who wanted to build an offline-reader without an
HTML renderer. So, I believe the first will never be satisfying and
that's why I really take care about the last developments of the
second solution.
The most interesting project is the Cairo one :
http://cairographics.org/news/cairo-1.4.6/
This is the new graphics rendering library behind gecko 1.9, itself
used in the next version of Firefox 3. If we are lucky it will used
too with the next releases of Kiwix.
http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap/gecko-1.9-roadmap.html
Bot projects (Cairo & Gecko 1.9) have made a lot of progress the last
monts, and it's pretty sure that the next firefox will have a "save as
PDF" feauture.
A private company have build a web page to test the rendering of web
pages as PDF using the last unstable version of gecko (still in
development) :
http://gecko.dynalivery.com/
I have done a test with one of our articles :
http://195.221.21.162/enwiki/dvd/art/1.html
as Attachment the result.
IMHO, it will certainly possible for us to integrate that feature in a
middle-term.
Best regards
Emmanuel
--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre
http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Bibliothèque libre
http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres
Thank you, Thomas, for the software enhancements
that you have made available.
Would your SVN access also make it practical to enable
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Labeled_Section_Transclusion?
As for your point about the availability of scanned text, I certainly agree.
Actually, I have been looking for ways to make this more automatic and
easier to implement in a wiki environment, but without much success.
Ideally, there should be a one-click link between every text and its scan
and/or presentation of both on the very same page.
But when dealing with texts containing hundreds or thousands of pages
it isn't easy, especially if one has to maneuver between different wikis
(Commons and Wikisource). Anything that would make this easier and
more automatic would be terrific!
Dovi
From: ThomasV
Subject: Re: [Wikisource-l] Features
To: "discussion list for Wikisource, the free library"
Message-ID: <463C8DB9.6070303(a)gmx.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I am pleased to announce that bug 7957 is now fixed. In fact, I did
not know of that bug before you sent your message to the mailing list :-)
Tim recently gave me svn access, so I hope that in the future I will
be able to provide more software enhancements for wikisource.
Considering Protect Section, it was never enabled because some people
at the foundation considered that it gives too much power to admins.
However, I believe that using ProofreadPage makes it unnecessary.
I wrote ProtectSection in order to protect texts against clever vandals
(or ignorant goodwilling contributors) who make corrections that look
ok but are not. However, the best way to tell apart corrections from
vandalism is to have access to the scanned text.
Thomas
---------------------------------
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Just some remarks to the art of discussion and decision here.
In March/April there were some mail concernig the wikisource, the future of wikiosurce (multilingual, wikisource.org) and new subdomains.
Although I work in wikisource.org since 2004 and although I am an admin there since 2005, I saw and I read some points the first time in my wiki life. There was no word of announcement or discussion of this matter on the pages of the multilingual wikisource, never, although it concerns this domain.
So, the proposals, that everything what has to do with new subdomains should be put in the hands of somebody else, but not the wikisource.
Nice. The multilingual wikisource did in the past manage the creation of new subdomains, after we had a contact to the users there. Now, there is a not nearly specified proposal, some incubation domain will do. Fine. Fine, if it works.
But doesn't seem to work. The discussion ended, nobody concerns, nobody tries to do something. And the Tamil wikisource request and another one are still waiting for a solution. Since months, since nearly one year. Do you think that the users are so strong and so good prepared fot the shit here, that they will wait another half a year and then start to work again??? I am sure, we lost not only some users, but we lost two subdomains in the last four weeks.
I tried to keep the domain of wikisource.org running in the past, but now I must resignate. Some people announce some new fine ideas, they take the competences away, without saying who will do it in the future. I am not like to act there as a idiot, I am not one.
You will have to recognize, that such acting leads to a loss of users and subdomains. You will have to recognize that the wikisource subdomains have to learn something else than the wikipedia or wictionary subdomains. Obviously, yaou have to recognize this in the future.
It is not a good feeling to me to write these sentences after three years of wotking here, but the development of the WS did hurt me.
Thanks.
-jkb-
It seems like every six months or so I end exposing my
frustration about the lack of attention our requests
get from developers on foundation-l. In one month we
will have been waiting for feedback on the LST patch a
full half-year. So I thought to compile all the tips
I have been given on getting features for Wikisource
in one email to see if anyone else has other
suggestions we have not tried.
The only suggestion I have gotten from the recent
foundation-l thread is to include implementation of an
extension in the development. I really don't
understand what is meant by that.
Six months back I was given the following suggestions
on development issues:
*be certain requests fit with the interests and
priorities of the group that would actually effect it
( I think this is not an issue with the Wikisource
requests)
*get someone writing code to think the requests are
useful and/or neat
(Mixed success)
*convince developer the feature *is actually
desirable*.
(We have really failed here. Even when we have gotten
editors from nearly all the active languages to
announce their support for a request in one place with
none opposing, I have been told by a developer that he
thought "there is open debate about whether this is a
desirable feature" I suggest this be read as
"convince Wikipedia editors to tell developers a
feature is actually desirable.")
*occasionally throw in a casual request for the status
of your latest (least) favourite bug.
(Mixed success)
*See if you can get someone to write a toolserver tool
that performs more or less the same function as
MediaWiki should. This has been a remarkably
successful approach at Commons, although we'd prefer
the MW solution of course.
( This really hasn't been tried. I personally don't
think Toolserver is capable of what we want in our
requests, but I am really not certain what it *is*
capable of.)
*you may want to learn PHP and the MediaWiki
codebase...
( Well not an option for me personally, but Thomas V
has gotten many things done by coding them himself )
An idea of my own, is to work at convincing the German
chapter that a feature is important as they have
employed developers. This hasn't been tried as far as
I know.
I would point out progress has made been on features
in the last six months. Thomas V has done great work
with Proofread Page extension, another addition to his
impressive resume of Wikisoure solutions. And I
especially want to say how much I appreciate the work
of Steve Sanbeg, who as a new Wikisoure contributer,
has gotten LST to be a workable extension instead of
just vague concept. I met Steve at Wikimania in
Boston and he shortly thereafter got to work on coding
LST. He also has some great ideas for using bots to
take on the next step in the en.WS Bible project after
LST is installed. So if anyone is able to attend
Wikimania this year, please recruit developers!
Birgitte SB
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