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proposal to extend the ref tag syntax
by ThomasV 12 Aug '10

12 Aug '10

Sorry, I forgot a topic ; reposting the previous message: I would like to extend the syntax of the <ref> tag (Cite extension), in order to deal with footnotes that are spread on several transcluded pages. Since the Cite extension is widely used, I guess I better ask here first. Here is an illustration of the problem : http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Robert_the_Bruce_and_the_struggle_for_Sc… On the bottom of the scan you can see the second half of a footnote. That footnote begins at the previous page : http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Robert_the_Bruce_and_the_struggle_for_Sc… Wikisourcers currently have no way to deal with these cases in a clean way. I have written a patch for this (the code is here : http://dpaste.org/QOMH/ ). This patch extends the "ref" syntax by adding a "follow" parameter, like this : <ref follow="foo">bar</ref> After two pages are transcluded, the wikitext passed to the parser will look like this : blah blah blah blah blah blah<ref name="note1">beginning of note 1</ref> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah<ref follow="note1">end of note</ref> blah blah blah This wikitext is rendered as a single footnote, located in the text at the position of the parent <ref>. If the parent <ref> is not found (as is the case when you render only the second page), then the text inside the tag is rendered at the beginning of the list of references, with no number and no link. does this make sense ? Thomas

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Re: [Wikisource-l] [Wikisource] proposal to extend the ref tag syntax
by Aleator Wiki 12 Aug '10

12 Aug '10

And what about the LST template combined to section tags? One example: - Page 1 is http://ca.wikisource.org/wiki/P%C3%A0gina:Cansons_de_la_terra_%281866%29.dj… and contains some text with one full reference, also the beginnig of a second ref, and we can also see the transclusion of the following portion of the second ref (from Page 2, thanks to "Lst" template). We see the full second ref, but just proofread it at its "physical" page. - Page 2 is http://ca.wikisource.org/wiki/P%C3%A0gina:Cansons_de_la_terra_%281866%29.dj… and contains 2 sections: some text with one reference, and the following portion of the reference (transcluded at Page 1). So, the final transclusion uses the "Page" template with the "section" parameter when necessary: http://ca.wikisource.org/wiki/Cansons_de_la_terra_-_Volum_I/Introducci%C3%B2 It's a bit uncomfortable, but also in books made of paper!! Why do they break refs?? Regards, Aleator ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:43:35 +0200 From: ThomasV <thomasV1(a)gmx.de> Subject: [Wikisource-l] (pas de sujet) To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>, "discussion list for Wikisource, the free library" <wikisource-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Message-ID: <4C62C527.2000204(a)gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I would like to extend the syntax of the <ref> tag (Cite extension), in order to deal with footnotes that are spread on several transcluded pages. Since the Cite extension is widely used, I guess I better ask here first. Here is an illustration of the problem : http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Robert_the_Bruce_and_the_struggle_for_Sc… On the bottom of the scan you can see the second half of a footnote. That footnote begins at the previous page : http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Robert_the_Bruce_and_the_struggle_for_Sc… Wikisourcers currently have no way to deal with these cases in a clean way. I have written a patch for this (the code is here : http://dpaste.org/QOMH/ ). This patch extends the "ref" syntax by adding a "follow" parameter, like this : <ref follow="foo">bar</ref> After two pages are transcluded, the wikitext passed to the parser will look like this : blah blah blah blah blah blah<ref name="note1">beginning of note 1</ref> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah<ref follow="note1">end of note</ref> blah blah blah This wikitext is rendered as a single footnote, located in the text at the position of the parent <ref>. If the parent <ref> is not found (as is the case when you render only the second page), then the text inside the tag is rendered at the beginning of the list of references, with no number and no link. does this make sense ? Thomas

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Re: [Wikisource-l] <ref> tag and multiple transcluded pages
by Mark Clements (HappyDog) 12 Aug '10

12 Aug '10

"Neil Kandalgaonkar" <neilk(a)wikimedia.org> wrote in message news:4C62E7E2.3040904@wikimedia.org... > For obvious reasons only consecutive pages should be allowed here. > Not true. Sometimes a footnote will start on one page, and the next page will have a full-page illustration, and then the footnote will continue on the subsequent pages. In books where there all the photgraphic plates are next to each other (which is very common, due to the printing/binding process) the gap could be of an arbitrary length. - Mark Clements (HappyDog)

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(pas de sujet)
by ThomasV 11 Aug '10

11 Aug '10

I would like to extend the syntax of the <ref> tag (Cite extension), in order to deal with footnotes that are spread on several transcluded pages. Since the Cite extension is widely used, I guess I better ask here first. Here is an illustration of the problem : http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Robert_the_Bruce_and_the_struggle_for_Sc… On the bottom of the scan you can see the second half of a footnote. That footnote begins at the previous page : http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Robert_the_Bruce_and_the_struggle_for_Sc… Wikisourcers currently have no way to deal with these cases in a clean way. I have written a patch for this (the code is here : http://dpaste.org/QOMH/ ). This patch extends the "ref" syntax by adding a "follow" parameter, like this : <ref follow="foo">bar</ref> After two pages are transcluded, the wikitext passed to the parser will look like this : blah blah blah blah blah blah<ref name="note1">beginning of note 1</ref> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah<ref follow="note1">end of note</ref> blah blah blah This wikitext is rendered as a single footnote, located in the text at the position of the parent <ref>. If the parent <ref> is not found (as is the case when you render only the second page), then the text inside the tag is rendered at the beginning of the list of references, with no number and no link. does this make sense ? Thomas

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Bangla (bn) Wikisource latest milestone
by Belayet Hossain 01 Aug '10

01 Aug '10

Hi, Bangla (bn) Wikisource (bn.wikisource.org) has been crossed 5,000 pages milestone. Belayet -- Belayet Hossain http://www.facebook.com/bellayet http://twitter.com/bellayet http://bellayet.wordpress.com (Bangla) Knowledge is universal ...so share it. Hillel____ If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?

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Partnership with the French National Library
by Seb35 29 Jul '10

29 Jul '10

Hei, I'm from the French chapter, Wikimédia France, and I want to annonce a good news for Wikisource. Some months ago Wikimédia France signed a partnership ("small" but significant in France) with the French National Library (BnF) who gives to Wikisource 1400 texts with their OCR [1]. Today these books arrived on Commons [2] and are ready to be checked by the Wikisource community. The list is available on [3], the range of books covers many century, different levels of confidence in the OCR and different subjects, but most of them are in French. Now there is work for 800 years say somebody, 20 years for another, 'don't know, we'll see :-) Wikimedially, Sébastien/Seb35 (I'm presently at Wikimania, Gdańsk, Poland) [1] http://www.wikimedia.fr/wikimédia-france-and-french-national-library-enter-… [2] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Books_provided_by_the_BNF [3] http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Dialogue_BnF/Liste_de_textes_fourn…

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Kicking off the 2010-2011 fundraiser
by Philippe Beaudette 24 Jul '10

24 Jul '10

[[Please distribute widely to various language communities, projects, and chapters]] Hi All, I'd like to begin a conversation about the 2010-2011 Fundraiser, which isn't slated to launch for a few months, but for which we'd like to get community involvement early and often. As you no doubt are aware, the strategic plan calls for the "many small gifts" model to be the centerpiece of our funding strategy, so our community fundraiser is one of the key methods by which we finance and underwrite the operations of the projects. The fundraiser this year will probably, as in earlier years, be primarily banner driven. We're going to have a strong emphasis on testing and iterating ideas, with a defined methodological testing plan. But the most important part of what we - all of us - are going to need to do is what this community has always been good at: thinking, researching, and iterating. With that in mind, it's important to identify people who want to help. Of course, anyone's welcome to join in and help at any time, but there's a definite need for people who are willing to be deeply involved from now to the wrap up... people who want to be creative but rigorous, innovative but willing to learn from the past, and most of all, to serve as an active part of the team working on this fundraiser. There will, of course, be Foundation staff deeply involved in this, but there's a real need for people from the community to step up and help us design this thing. If you're willing to help, would you add your name to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_2010/Committee ? We'll be in contact - soon - to get things started. Thanks, Philippe ____________________ Philippe Beaudette Head of Reader Relations Wikimedia Foundation philippe(a)wikimedia.org ofc: +1 415 839 6885 (x 643) mobile: 918 200 WIKI (9454) Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: [Wikisource-l] [Foundation-l] Wikisource and reCAPTCHA
by Samuel J Klein 19 Jul '10

19 Jul '10

Hello Aubrey, On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:26 PM, Aubrey <zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The issue of metadata is nontheless serious, because it's one of the most > important flaws of Wikisource: not applying standards (i.e Dublin Core) and not > having a proper tools for export/import and harvest metadata Both good points. Are there proposals on wikisource to address these two points in a way that's friendly to wikisource contributors? >> I want us to get better, faster, less held up by the idea of >> coordinating with other projects, because there are much larger >> projects out there worthy of coordinating with. The annotators who >> work on the Perseus Project come to mind... but that's truly a harder >> problem than this one. > > The Perseus project is an *amazing* project, but I regard them far more ahead > than us. The PP is actually a Virtual Research Environment, with tools for > scholars and researcher for studying texts, (concordances and similar stuff). < > I would love to have PP people involved in collaboration with Wikisource, just > don't know if this is possible. Yes, PP is ahead of us in some ways. But in other ways they have run into bottleneck and multilingual issues that a wiki environment can resolve. I believe that Prof. Greg Crane of the Perseus Project (cc:ed here) is interested in starting to collaborate with Wikisource, even while pursuing ideas about developing a larger framework for wiki-style annotations and editions. While it may be hard in the short term, in the long term that's what I think we all want wikisource to become. > It is interesting because a project similar to PGDP (it is Italian and started > in 1993, emulating the glorious PG, just with Italian texts) is, right now, > moving to a wiki. Although the scale is way smaller, Wikipedia and Wikisource > showed them a system which tends to eliminate bottlenecks, and for them this is > becoming crucial. < > Luckily, the relationships with the Italian Wikisource are really good, and > they'll probably share an office with Wikimedia Italy, in October. > The interesting fact is that the offices will be within a library ;-), so I > really expect a collaboration there. Wow. This is all great to hear -- can you include a link to the project? I'd like to blog about it. Warmly, SJ

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Re: [Wikisource-l] Dublin Core and TEI
by Ray Saintonge 18 Jul '10

18 Jul '10

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Dublin Core and TEI
by John Vandenberg 16 Jul '10

16 Jul '10

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Aubrey <zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com> wrote: >... > > The issue of metadata is nontheless serious, because it's one of the most > important flaws of Wikisource: not applying standards (i.e Dublin Core) and not > having a proper tools for export/import and harvest metadata is still make us > amateurs, at least for "real" digital libraries (who focus mainly on the > metadata stuff, and sometimes provide either texts or images (it is really rare > to have both)). This is also a problem with Wikimedia Commons. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Dublin_Core > The Perseus project is an *amazing* project, but I regard them far more ahead > than us. The PP is actually a Virtual Research Environment, with tools for > scholars and researcher for studying texts, (concordances and similar stuff). I agree. I would go further; PP will always be far more advanced than a mediawiki system. They store their data in TEI format, which is an extremely rich standard. Wikisource can incorporate some of the TEI concepts by using templates, but I doubt we could ever be a leader in this area, nor do I think we want to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_Encoding_Initiative > It happens that I just finished my Master thesis about collaborative digital > libraries for scholars (in the Italian context), and the outcome is quite clear: > researcher do want collaborative tools in DLs, but wiki system are > to simple and (right now) too naive to really help scholars in their work (and > there's a lot of other issues I'm not going to explain here). > > I would love to have PP people involved in collaboration with Wikisource, just > don't know if this is possible. I agree. PP and Wikisource are too different, and have very little to gain from the other. PP wants to improve/increase collaboration & community, but not at the expense of loosing the quality of their metadata. Wikisource wants to improve quality and metadata, but not at the expense of the ability to collaboration and our simple editing interface. Again, interoperability is the first step towards useful 'collaboration'. i.e. Wikisource needs to export TEI. Then we could feed our poorly annotated/described sources into PP, where the academic community would then add the metadata. TEI export would also be useful for wiktionary. > Just one more thing: why this awesome thread has not been linked to the > source-l? Probably that would have been the best place to discuss. ;-) -- John Vandenberg

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