Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular),
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences.
I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously.
Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year.
Pine
Hey pine,
As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more Europeans.
Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with WikiSym and the hackathon).
To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants.
Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I guess that'll be of little use to you.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular),
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences.
I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously.
Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year.
Pine
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including French and Spanish).
The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue for a separate conference with separate expenses.
Pine On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hey pine,
As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more Europeans.
Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with WikiSym and the hackathon).
To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants.
Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I guess that'll be of little use to you.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular),
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences.
I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously.
Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year.
Pine
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hi Pine,
Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever you do, it will be.
The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc. Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam, Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings.
Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations (which I also think would be quite untrue).
The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have three presentations about education grouped together where they come from different regions, with different approaches than to have three presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together. I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region - and it would be without precedent (I think).
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including French and Spanish).
The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue for a separate conference with separate expenses.
Pine On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hey pine,
As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more Europeans.
Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with WikiSym and the hackathon).
To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants.
Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I guess that'll be of little use to you.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular),
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences.
I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously.
Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year.
Pine
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hi Pine,
Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is concerned about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America and the other a general/global event.
This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the cost and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you to consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America.
Best, Leila
Leila Zia Research Scientist Wikimedia Foundation
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever you do, it will be.
The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc. Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam, Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings.
Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations (which I also think would be quite untrue).
The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have three presentations about education grouped together where they come from different regions, with different approaches than to have three presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together. I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region - and it would be without precedent (I think).
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including French and Spanish).
The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue for a separate conference with separate expenses.
Pine On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hey pine,
As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more Europeans.
Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with WikiSym and the hackathon).
To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants.
Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I guess that'll be of little use to you.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular),
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences.
I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously.
Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year.
Pine
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Or -- my favorite solution -- leaving LOTS of time in the schedule for meetups and discussion tracks, so that all kinds of groups -- including those interested specifically in North America-related issues (like building a coalition of NA usergroups, planning future conferences, doing NA-specific outreach or lobbying) can meet to discuss such things.
We've had discussion time historically at most Wikimanias but I think we can always leave more time in the schedule for this kind of meetup. Additionally a preconference day could work too, when multiple thematic tracks could be scheduled (lots of people have historically asked for preconferences, not just the hackers -- everyone from researchers to librarians to glam outreach coordinators to affiliates have considered it in the past).
(Of course, if I was in charge of the schedule I would probably get rid of individual presentations altogether during Wikimania, and just have panels/lightning talks/discussions. Best not to put me in charge of the schedule! :)
-- Phoebe
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is concerned about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America and the other a general/global event.
This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the cost and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you to consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America.
Best, Leila
Leila Zia Research Scientist Wikimedia Foundation
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever you do, it will be.
The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc. Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam, Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings.
Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations (which I also think would be quite untrue).
The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have three presentations about education grouped together where they come from different regions, with different approaches than to have three presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together. I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region - and it would be without precedent (I think).
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including French and Spanish).
The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue for a separate conference with separate expenses.
Pine On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hey pine,
As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more Europeans.
Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with WikiSym and the hackathon).
To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants.
Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I guess that'll be of little use to you.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular),
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences.
I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously.
Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year.
Pine
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Yes, we were thinking more along the lines of an expanded preconference with greater regional opportunities, rather than a separate track during the actual Wikimania.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:11 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.ayers@gmail.com wrote:
Or -- my favorite solution -- leaving LOTS of time in the schedule for meetups and discussion tracks, so that all kinds of groups -- including those interested specifically in North America-related issues (like building a coalition of NA usergroups, planning future conferences, doing NA-specific outreach or lobbying) can meet to discuss such things.
We've had discussion time historically at most Wikimanias but I think we can always leave more time in the schedule for this kind of meetup. Additionally a preconference day could work too, when multiple thematic tracks could be scheduled (lots of people have historically asked for preconferences, not just the hackers -- everyone from researchers to librarians to glam outreach coordinators to affiliates have considered it in the past).
(Of course, if I was in charge of the schedule I would probably get rid of individual presentations altogether during Wikimania, and just have panels/lightning talks/discussions. Best not to put me in charge of the schedule! :)
-- Phoebe
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is concerned about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America and the other a general/global event.
This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the cost and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you to consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America.
Best, Leila
Leila Zia Research Scientist Wikimedia Foundation
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever you do, it will be.
The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc. Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam, Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings.
Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations (which I also think would be quite untrue).
The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have three presentations about education grouped together where they come from different regions, with different approaches than to have three presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together. I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region - and it would be without precedent (I think).
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including French and Spanish).
The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue for a separate conference with separate expenses.
Pine On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hey pine,
As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more Europeans.
Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with WikiSym and the hackathon).
To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants.
Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I guess that'll be of little use to you.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular),
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences.
I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously.
Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year.
Pine
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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I like the preconference idea. If there's enough space in the venue (and I imagine that there will be), there could also be time and space set aside for other regions/language groups to have tracks during the preconference as well. I have the impression that regional/language meetups are a subject of considerable interest from many Wikimedians.
Pine
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, we were thinking more along the lines of an expanded preconference with greater regional opportunities, rather than a separate track during the actual Wikimania.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:11 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.ayers@gmail.com wrote:
Or -- my favorite solution -- leaving LOTS of time in the schedule for meetups and discussion tracks, so that all kinds of groups -- including those interested specifically in North America-related issues (like building a coalition of NA usergroups, planning future conferences, doing NA-specific outreach or lobbying) can meet to discuss such things.
We've had discussion time historically at most Wikimanias but I think we can always leave more time in the schedule for this kind of meetup. Additionally a preconference day could work too, when multiple thematic tracks could be scheduled (lots of people have historically asked for preconferences, not just the hackers -- everyone from researchers to librarians to glam outreach coordinators to affiliates have considered it in the past).
(Of course, if I was in charge of the schedule I would probably get rid of individual presentations altogether during Wikimania, and just have panels/lightning talks/discussions. Best not to put me in charge of the schedule! :)
-- Phoebe
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is concerned about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America and the other a general/global event.
This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the cost and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you to consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America.
Best, Leila
Leila Zia Research Scientist Wikimedia Foundation
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever you do, it will be.
The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc. Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam, Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings.
Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations (which I also think would be quite untrue).
The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have three presentations about education grouped together where they come from different regions, with different approaches than to have three presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together. I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region - and it would be without precedent (I think).
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including French and Spanish).
The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue for a separate conference with separate expenses.
Pine On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hey pine,
As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more Europeans.
Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with WikiSym and the hackathon).
To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants.
Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I guess that'll be of little use to you.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
> Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular), > > Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference > North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This > would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of > both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences. > > I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be > willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North > American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated > North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance > at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make > what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously. > > Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year. > > Pine > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > >
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As Pharos says, my understanding also from discussions was that North Americans were planning to have a pre-conference or post conference at Wikimanina 2017.
Sydney
Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wiki Project Med Foundation WikiWomen's User Group Facebook https://www.facebook.com/sydney.e.poore
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, we were thinking more along the lines of an expanded preconference with greater regional opportunities, rather than a separate track during the actual Wikimania.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:11 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.ayers@gmail.com wrote:
Or -- my favorite solution -- leaving LOTS of time in the schedule for meetups and discussion tracks, so that all kinds of groups -- including those interested specifically in North America-related issues (like building a coalition of NA usergroups, planning future conferences, doing NA-specific outreach or lobbying) can meet to discuss such things.
We've had discussion time historically at most Wikimanias but I think we can always leave more time in the schedule for this kind of meetup. Additionally a preconference day could work too, when multiple thematic tracks could be scheduled (lots of people have historically asked for preconferences, not just the hackers -- everyone from researchers to librarians to glam outreach coordinators to affiliates have considered it in the past).
(Of course, if I was in charge of the schedule I would probably get rid of individual presentations altogether during Wikimania, and just have panels/lightning talks/discussions. Best not to put me in charge of the schedule! :)
-- Phoebe
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is concerned about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America and the other a general/global event.
This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the cost and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you to consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America.
Best, Leila
Leila Zia Research Scientist Wikimedia Foundation
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever you do, it will be.
The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc. Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam, Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings.
Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations (which I also think would be quite untrue).
The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have three presentations about education grouped together where they come from different regions, with different approaches than to have three presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together. I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region - and it would be without precedent (I think).
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including French and Spanish).
The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue for a separate conference with separate expenses.
Pine On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hey pine,
As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more Europeans.
Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with WikiSym and the hackathon).
To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants.
Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I guess that'll be of little use to you.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
> Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular), > > Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference > North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This > would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of > both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences. > > I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be > willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North > American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated > North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance > at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make > what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously. > > Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year. > > Pine > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > >
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Still I wonder: what would be the kind of topics you'd like to schedule there that you would /not/ want non-North Americans to participate in?
Lodewijk
2016-07-06 19:28 GMT+02:00 Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com:
As Pharos says, my understanding also from discussions was that North Americans were planning to have a pre-conference or post conference at Wikimanina 2017.
Sydney
Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wiki Project Med Foundation WikiWomen's User Group Facebook https://www.facebook.com/sydney.e.poore
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, we were thinking more along the lines of an expanded preconference with greater regional opportunities, rather than a separate track during the actual Wikimania.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:11 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.ayers@gmail.com wrote:
Or -- my favorite solution -- leaving LOTS of time in the schedule for meetups and discussion tracks, so that all kinds of groups -- including those interested specifically in North America-related issues (like building a coalition of NA usergroups, planning future conferences, doing NA-specific outreach or lobbying) can meet to discuss such things.
We've had discussion time historically at most Wikimanias but I think we can always leave more time in the schedule for this kind of meetup. Additionally a preconference day could work too, when multiple thematic tracks could be scheduled (lots of people have historically asked for preconferences, not just the hackers -- everyone from researchers to librarians to glam outreach coordinators to affiliates have considered it in the past).
(Of course, if I was in charge of the schedule I would probably get rid of individual presentations altogether during Wikimania, and just have panels/lightning talks/discussions. Best not to put me in charge of the schedule! :)
-- Phoebe
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is concerned about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America and the other a general/global event.
This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the cost and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you to consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America.
Best, Leila
Leila Zia Research Scientist Wikimedia Foundation
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever you do, it will be.
The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc. Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam, Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings.
Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations (which I also think would be quite untrue).
The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have three presentations about education grouped together where they come from different regions, with different approaches than to have three presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together. I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region - and it would be without precedent (I think).
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including French and Spanish).
The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue for a separate conference with separate expenses.
Pine On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
> Hey pine, > > As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of > regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania > is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more > Europeans. > > Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the > best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were > separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session > tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion > than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often > organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with > WikiSym and the hackathon). > > To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional > and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would > require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and > it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to > separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of > splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too > much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get > lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants. > > Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I > guess that'll be of little use to you. > > Best, > Lodewijk > > 2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com: > >> Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in >> particular), >> >> Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference >> North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This >> would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of >> both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences. >> >> I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be >> willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North >> American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated >> North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance >> at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make >> what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously. >> >> Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year. >> >> Pine >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > > _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Still I wonder: what would be the kind of topics you'd like to schedule there that you would /not/ want non-North Americans to participate in?
Lodewijk
Lodewijk, would you object to an Asian or Indian Subcontinent Wikiconference that allowed people in similar geographic and cultural milieus to cooperate, share experiences and challenges and strengthen relationships? I doubt it, I'm not sure why a NA Wikiconference would be different.
Nathan, I don't object at all to any wikiconference. I just miss the point of having North Americans present their projects away from the international crowd, to only their fellow-north americans. If there is something very particular that makes these talks unsuitable for people from other continents, I'd really like to understand that better.
Like I said, I'm not aware of any such track or preconference in other countries, with a few exceptions where language played a major role (I think there was a Spanish track in both Buenos Aires and Mexico, and a Hebrew (education?) track in Haifa). Also in an Asian context I'd have a hard time imagining why you would make that so specific to that region - except if it is really tied to language.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 19:33 GMT+02:00 Nathan nawrich@gmail.com:
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Still I wonder: what would be the kind of topics you'd like to schedule there that you would /not/ want non-North Americans to participate in?
Lodewijk
Lodewijk, would you object to an Asian or Indian Subcontinent Wikiconference that allowed people in similar geographic and cultural milieus to cooperate, share experiences and challenges and strengthen relationships? I doubt it, I'm not sure why a NA Wikiconference would be different.
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Lodewijk, the main reason that I can think of to have a separate event is lack of room in the Wikimania conference schedule to have a group of sessions that are targeted to North Americans.
Sydney
Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wiki Project Med Foundation WikiWomen's User Group Facebook https://www.facebook.com/sydney.e.poore
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Nathan, I don't object at all to any wikiconference. I just miss the point of having North Americans present their projects away from the international crowd, to only their fellow-north americans. If there is something very particular that makes these talks unsuitable for people from other continents, I'd really like to understand that better.
Like I said, I'm not aware of any such track or preconference in other countries, with a few exceptions where language played a major role (I think there was a Spanish track in both Buenos Aires and Mexico, and a Hebrew (education?) track in Haifa). Also in an Asian context I'd have a hard time imagining why you would make that so specific to that region - except if it is really tied to language.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 19:33 GMT+02:00 Nathan nawrich@gmail.com:
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Still I wonder: what would be the kind of topics you'd like to schedule there that you would /not/ want non-North Americans to participate in?
Lodewijk
Lodewijk, would you object to an Asian or Indian Subcontinent Wikiconference that allowed people in similar geographic and cultural milieus to cooperate, share experiences and challenges and strengthen relationships? I doubt it, I'm not sure why a NA Wikiconference would be different.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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None! We'd want as many Europeans, Asians, Africans, and South Americans as are interested to join the North American regional planning meetups.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Still I wonder: what would be the kind of topics you'd like to schedule there that you would /not/ want non-North Americans to participate in?
Lodewijk
2016-07-06 19:28 GMT+02:00 Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com:
As Pharos says, my understanding also from discussions was that North Americans were planning to have a pre-conference or post conference at Wikimanina 2017.
Sydney
Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wiki Project Med Foundation WikiWomen's User Group Facebook https://www.facebook.com/sydney.e.poore
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, we were thinking more along the lines of an expanded preconference with greater regional opportunities, rather than a separate track during the actual Wikimania.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:11 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.ayers@gmail.com wrote:
Or -- my favorite solution -- leaving LOTS of time in the schedule for meetups and discussion tracks, so that all kinds of groups -- including those interested specifically in North America-related issues (like building a coalition of NA usergroups, planning future conferences, doing NA-specific outreach or lobbying) can meet to discuss such things.
We've had discussion time historically at most Wikimanias but I think we can always leave more time in the schedule for this kind of meetup. Additionally a preconference day could work too, when multiple thematic tracks could be scheduled (lots of people have historically asked for preconferences, not just the hackers -- everyone from researchers to librarians to glam outreach coordinators to affiliates have considered it in the past).
(Of course, if I was in charge of the schedule I would probably get rid of individual presentations altogether during Wikimania, and just have panels/lightning talks/discussions. Best not to put me in charge of the schedule! :)
-- Phoebe
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is concerned about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America and the other a general/global event.
This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the cost and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you to consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America.
Best, Leila
Leila Zia Research Scientist Wikimedia Foundation
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever you do, it will be.
The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc. Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam, Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings.
Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations (which I also think would be quite untrue).
The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have three presentations about education grouped together where they come from different regions, with different approaches than to have three presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together. I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region - and it would be without precedent (I think).
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
> I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including French > and Spanish). > > The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is > that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this > purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend > tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, > GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come > to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating > the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net > positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise > be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead > be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, > which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, > and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue > for a separate conference with separate expenses. > > Pine > On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org > wrote: > >> Hey pine, >> >> As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of >> regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania >> is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more >> Europeans. >> >> Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the >> best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were >> separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session >> tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion >> than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often >> organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with >> WikiSym and the hackathon). >> >> To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional >> and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would >> require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and >> it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to >> separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of >> splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too >> much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get >> lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants. >> >> Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I >> guess that'll be of little use to you. >> >> Best, >> Lodewijk >> >> 2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com: >> >>> Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in >>> particular), >>> >>> Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference >>> North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This >>> would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of >>> both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences. >>> >>> I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be >>> willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North >>> American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated >>> North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance >>> at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make >>> what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously. >>> >>> Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year. >>> >>> Pine >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > >
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*Lodewijk said: Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... *
About that: There will be tracks in French? Quebec being a French speaking province and all...
_____ *Béria L. de Rodríguez*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho.*
2016-07-06 14:33 GMT-03:00 Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com:
None! We'd want as many Europeans, Asians, Africans, and South Americans as are interested to join the North American regional planning meetups.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Still I wonder: what would be the kind of topics you'd like to schedule there that you would /not/ want non-North Americans to participate in?
Lodewijk
2016-07-06 19:28 GMT+02:00 Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com:
As Pharos says, my understanding also from discussions was that North Americans were planning to have a pre-conference or post conference at Wikimanina 2017.
Sydney
Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wiki Project Med Foundation WikiWomen's User Group Facebook https://www.facebook.com/sydney.e.poore
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, we were thinking more along the lines of an expanded preconference with greater regional opportunities, rather than a separate track during the actual Wikimania.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:11 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.ayers@gmail.com wrote:
Or -- my favorite solution -- leaving LOTS of time in the schedule for meetups and discussion tracks, so that all kinds of groups -- including those interested specifically in North America-related issues (like building a coalition of NA usergroups, planning future conferences, doing NA-specific outreach or lobbying) can meet to discuss such things.
We've had discussion time historically at most Wikimanias but I think we can always leave more time in the schedule for this kind of meetup. Additionally a preconference day could work too, when multiple thematic tracks could be scheduled (lots of people have historically asked for preconferences, not just the hackers -- everyone from researchers to librarians to glam outreach coordinators to affiliates have considered it in the past).
(Of course, if I was in charge of the schedule I would probably get rid of individual presentations altogether during Wikimania, and just have panels/lightning talks/discussions. Best not to put me in charge of the schedule! :)
-- Phoebe
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is concerned about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America and the other a general/global event.
This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the cost and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you to consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America.
Best, Leila
Leila Zia Research Scientist Wikimedia Foundation
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk <lodewijk@effeietsanders.org > wrote:
> Hi Pine, > > Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify > a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American > WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme > at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever > you do, it will be. > > The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special > 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and > separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I > wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc. > Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam, > Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings. > > Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping > topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North > Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is > true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations > (which I also think would be quite untrue). > > The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan > of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you > have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have > three presentations about education grouped together where they come from > different regions, with different approaches than to have three > presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together. > I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region - > and it would be without precedent (I think). > > Best, > Lodewijk > > 2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com: > >> I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including >> French and Spanish). >> >> The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is >> that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this >> purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend >> tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, >> GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come >> to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating >> the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net >> positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise >> be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead >> be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, >> which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, >> and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue >> for a separate conference with separate expenses. >> >> Pine >> On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org >> wrote: >> >>> Hey pine, >>> >>> As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence >>> of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When >>> Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in >>> Europe, more Europeans. >>> >>> Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the >>> best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were >>> separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session >>> tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion >>> than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often >>> organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with >>> WikiSym and the hackathon). >>> >>> To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional >>> and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would >>> require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and >>> it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to >>> separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of >>> splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too >>> much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get >>> lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants. >>> >>> Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I >>> guess that'll be of little use to you. >>> >>> Best, >>> Lodewijk >>> >>> 2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com: >>> >>>> Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in >>>> particular), >>>> >>>> Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference >>>> North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This >>>> would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of >>>> both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences. >>>> >>>> I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be >>>> willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North >>>> American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated >>>> North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance >>>> at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make >>>> what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously. >>>> >>>> Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year. >>>> >>>> Pine >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > >
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I think there could be at least a few sessions in French, during the North American sessions and/or if there is a Francophone language track during the pre-conference.
Similarly, there could be sessions in Spanish during North American and/or Iberocoop pre-conference sessions.
Pine
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com wrote:
*Lodewijk said: Now I *do* see an added value for a French language
track... *
About that: There will be tracks in French? Quebec being a French speaking province and all...
*Béria L. de Rodríguez*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho.*
2016-07-06 14:33 GMT-03:00 Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com:
None! We'd want as many Europeans, Asians, Africans, and South Americans as are interested to join the North American regional planning meetups.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Still I wonder: what would be the kind of topics you'd like to schedule there that you would /not/ want non-North Americans to participate in?
Lodewijk
2016-07-06 19:28 GMT+02:00 Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com:
As Pharos says, my understanding also from discussions was that North Americans were planning to have a pre-conference or post conference at Wikimanina 2017.
Sydney
Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wiki Project Med Foundation WikiWomen's User Group Facebook https://www.facebook.com/sydney.e.poore
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, we were thinking more along the lines of an expanded preconference with greater regional opportunities, rather than a separate track during the actual Wikimania.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:11 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.ayers@gmail.com wrote:
Or -- my favorite solution -- leaving LOTS of time in the schedule for meetups and discussion tracks, so that all kinds of groups -- including those interested specifically in North America-related issues (like building a coalition of NA usergroups, planning future conferences, doing NA-specific outreach or lobbying) can meet to discuss such things.
We've had discussion time historically at most Wikimanias but I think we can always leave more time in the schedule for this kind of meetup. Additionally a preconference day could work too, when multiple thematic tracks could be scheduled (lots of people have historically asked for preconferences, not just the hackers -- everyone from researchers to librarians to glam outreach coordinators to affiliates have considered it in the past).
(Of course, if I was in charge of the schedule I would probably get rid of individual presentations altogether during Wikimania, and just have panels/lightning talks/discussions. Best not to put me in charge of the schedule! :)
-- Phoebe
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
> Hi Pine, > > Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is > co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main > conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and > WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last > couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is concerned > about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can > benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling > events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not > scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America > and the other a general/global event. > > This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the > cost and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you > to consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America. > > Best, > Leila > > Leila Zia > Research Scientist > Wikimedia Foundation > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk < > lodewijk@effeietsanders.org> wrote: > >> Hi Pine, >> >> Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify >> a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American >> WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme >> at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever >> you do, it will be. >> >> The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special >> 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and >> separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I >> wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc. >> Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam, >> Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings. >> >> Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping >> topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North >> Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is >> true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations >> (which I also think would be quite untrue). >> >> The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan >> of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you >> have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have >> three presentations about education grouped together where they come from >> different regions, with different approaches than to have three >> presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together. >> I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region - >> and it would be without precedent (I think). >> >> Best, >> Lodewijk >> >> 2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com: >> >>> I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including >>> French and Spanish). >>> >>> The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is >>> that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this >>> purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend >>> tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, >>> GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come >>> to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating >>> the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net >>> positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise >>> be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead >>> be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal, >>> which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania, >>> and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue >>> for a separate conference with separate expenses. >>> >>> Pine >>> On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey pine, >>>> >>>> As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence >>>> of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When >>>> Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in >>>> Europe, more Europeans. >>>> >>>> Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the >>>> best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were >>>> separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session >>>> tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a discussion >>>> than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often >>>> organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with >>>> WikiSym and the hackathon). >>>> >>>> To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American >>>> regional and local subjects' would require such track and even more why it >>>> would require a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, >>>> and it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to >>>> separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of >>>> splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too >>>> much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get >>>> lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants. >>>> >>>> Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but >>>> I guess that'll be of little use to you. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Lodewijk >>>> >>>> 2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com: >>>> >>>>> Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in >>>>> particular), >>>>> >>>>> Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference >>>>> North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This >>>>> would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of >>>>> both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences. >>>>> >>>>> I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be >>>>> willing and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North >>>>> American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated >>>>> North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance >>>>> at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make >>>>> what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year. >>>>> >>>>> Pine >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > >
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Hey Pine,
On 2016-07-06 01:44 AM, Pine W wrote:
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal.
Like many others on the list, I'm not entirely clear on what you'd like to achieve?
Certainly, any topics that would have been welcome and appropriate at a the WikiConference would be welcome at Wikimania, with no need of distinct tracks?
Certainly, some meetings will have discussion topic that would be generally less interesting to an international audience; but then remain suitable for meetups. (Speaking of which, there will be a lot of available space and time for both organized and impromptu meetings in Montreal that are self-organized by the participants; both BoF sessions that are organized in advance with scheduled time and places as well as space set aside for unconferency impromptu meetings).
That said, if you feel the need to avoid division of audience, we do have two full days of preconference during which it may be possible to make additional meeting space avaliable for a more "distinct" WikiConference?
-- Coren / Marc
Thinking out loud: what about doing it post-conference instead of pre-conference? Then you could schedule it a bit more unconference, and cover things that were not covered at Wikimania itself, and focus on building on what you learned. You could focus on collaboration rather than having more presentations?
Lodewijk
2016-07-06 20:17 GMT+02:00 Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org:
Hey Pine,
On 2016-07-06 01:44 AM, Pine W wrote:
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal.
Like many others on the list, I'm not entirely clear on what you'd like to achieve?
Certainly, any topics that would have been welcome and appropriate at a the WikiConference would be welcome at Wikimania, with no need of distinct tracks?
Certainly, some meetings will have discussion topic that would be generally less interesting to an international audience; but then remain suitable for meetups. (Speaking of which, there will be a lot of available space and time for both organized and impromptu meetings in Montreal that are self-organized by the participants; both BoF sessions that are organized in advance with scheduled time and places as well as space set aside for unconferency impromptu meetings).
That said, if you feel the need to avoid division of audience, we do have two full days of preconference during which it may be possible to make additional meeting space avaliable for a more "distinct" WikiConference?
-- Coren / Marc
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 2016-07-06 02:35 PM, Lodewijk wrote:
Thinking out loud: what about doing it post-conference instead of pre-conference?
There are unsurmountable issues with this, unless it takes place at some other venue (mostly, that while it should be easy to add more space for use during the allocated timerframe, extending the timeframe would be - at best - expensive and more likely impossible).
No doubt this should be considered before planning the next event though.
-- Coren / Marc
The focus is much more on (inter)regional collaboration than on additional formal presentations, in any case.
It sounds like logistically this may be easier during a preconference than postconference, but either would be suitable.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
On 2016-07-06 02:35 PM, Lodewijk wrote:
Thinking out loud: what about doing it post-conference instead of pre-conference?
There are unsurmountable issues with this, unless it takes place at some other venue (mostly, that while it should be easy to add more space for use during the allocated timerframe, extending the timeframe would be - at best
- expensive and more likely impossible).
No doubt this should be considered before planning the next event though.
-- Coren / Marc
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
If I'm understanding right, it appears that the pre-conference will be Wednesday and Thursday, since the main conference starts on Friday (August 11). Is that right?
I'd be willing to help with organizing pre-conference sessions and events. The conference committee is welcome to contact me off-list to discuss this further. (:
Pine
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
The focus is much more on (inter)regional collaboration than on additional formal presentations, in any case.
It sounds like logistically this may be easier during a preconference than postconference, but either would be suitable.
Thanks, Pharos
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
On 2016-07-06 02:35 PM, Lodewijk wrote:
Thinking out loud: what about doing it post-conference instead of pre-conference?
There are unsurmountable issues with this, unless it takes place at some other venue (mostly, that while it should be easy to add more space for use during the allocated timerframe, extending the timeframe would be - at best
- expensive and more likely impossible).
No doubt this should be considered before planning the next event though.
-- Coren / Marc
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 2016-07-06 04:49 PM, Pine W wrote:
If I'm understanding right, it appears that the pre-conference will be Wednesday and Thursday, since the main conference starts on Friday (August 11). Is that right?
That is correct.
I'd be willing to help with organizing pre-conference sessions and events. The conference committee is welcome to contact me off-list to discuss this further. (:
Wikimedia France has agreed to coordinate the programme construction, I'm certain they would welcome help! (Though it may be premature, I don't yet know exactly how they will structure their work, you may want to make your interest in helping known).
-- Coren / Marc
I dont see what the issue is asking for a NA track, before detailed planning gets too far progressed, it makes sense to have the two conferences overlap or be as one as people have limited time they can attend if they are interested in NA tracks and follow on from the NA 2016 conference then that is a good out come.
Asking ensures
- the venue capacity allows for the extra set of rooms needed, - it attracts people interested in NA issues who wouldnt attend Wikimania - it allows people to attend both with minimal additional costs, including time off work - its about doing proper due diligence - if the answer is no NA track(s) can be included then they need to address alternatives - its not a them and us type situation
On 7 July 2016 at 04:59, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
On 2016-07-06 04:49 PM, Pine W wrote:
If I'm understanding right, it appears that the pre-conference will be Wednesday and Thursday, since the main conference starts on Friday (August 11). Is that right?
That is correct.
I'd be willing to help with organizing pre-conference sessions and events.
The conference committee is welcome to contact me off-list to discuss this further. (:
Wikimedia France has agreed to coordinate the programme construction, I'm certain they would welcome help! (Though it may be premature, I don't yet know exactly how they will structure their work, you may want to make your interest in helping known).
-- Coren / Marc
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hello,
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
Hey Pine,
On 2016-07-06 01:44 AM, Pine W wrote:
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal.
Like many others on the list, I'm not entirely clear on what you'd like to achieve?
The intent of having a North America meetup would be developing regional
connections in least expensive, most attractive place to bring local people together. The problem to address is that very active Wikimedia members in North America mostly have not met each other, and consequently, the social networks which ought to be developing over time have not yet been established.
Backing up - one way to improve Wikimania to meet this and other demands is to 1. Have extra spaces for small meetups 2. Put those spaces on a public schedule which can be edited by the community
There has never been a Wikimania to attempt this yet. Having 2-3 open rooms which can be reserved by groups without organizer review for semi-private meetups would be a big help. There might be demand for more space - I do not know, but that should be a minimum.
In retrospect, many Wikimanias are in venues with extra space, and anyone could have set up on-wiki schedules for events in those spaces. But in practice, if the open spaces and schedule is not set up online in advance, then it becomes very difficult to set up group meetings in a set location close to or during the conference. Organizing at Wikimanias is sensitive and the conference planners need a schedule under their control, and there should be some open schedule space, and both should be very easy to find and as close together as possible.
yours,
Certainly, any topics that would have been welcome and appropriate at a the WikiConference would be welcome at Wikimania, with no need of distinct tracks?
Certainly, some meetings will have discussion topic that would be generally less interesting to an international audience; but then remain suitable for meetups. (Speaking of which, there will be a lot of available space and time for both organized and impromptu meetings in Montreal that are self-organized by the participants; both BoF sessions that are organized in advance with scheduled time and places as well as space set aside for unconferency impromptu meetings).
That said, if you feel the need to avoid division of audience, we do have two full days of preconference during which it may be possible to make additional meeting space avaliable for a more "distinct" WikiConference?
-- Coren / Marc
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hey Lane,
I think the meeting spaces idea was done actually at various Wikimania's (At least I'm pretty confident about a few who did it in a structured way) and after a while it was moved to the break times (which is why we have such long breaks usually), but still in rooms on-site. I recall at least one such meeting in Washington where we both were present. Such meetings were also possible in Esino Lario.
I know there were some serious experiments about this (definitely in Boston/Taiwan) on having open spaces that could be used in unconference style. If you want to experiment with that again, it's probably good to dig a bit into that, and gather lessons from the previous years for an optimal experience.
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-07 14:27 GMT+02:00 Lane Rasberry lane@bluerasberry.com:
Hello,
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
Hey Pine,
On 2016-07-06 01:44 AM, Pine W wrote:
Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal.
Like many others on the list, I'm not entirely clear on what you'd like to achieve?
The intent of having a North America meetup would be developing regional
connections in least expensive, most attractive place to bring local people together. The problem to address is that very active Wikimedia members in North America mostly have not met each other, and consequently, the social networks which ought to be developing over time have not yet been established.
Backing up - one way to improve Wikimania to meet this and other demands is to
- Have extra spaces for small meetups
- Put those spaces on a public schedule which can be edited by the
community
There has never been a Wikimania to attempt this yet. Having 2-3 open rooms which can be reserved by groups without organizer review for semi-private meetups would be a big help. There might be demand for more space - I do not know, but that should be a minimum.
In retrospect, many Wikimanias are in venues with extra space, and anyone could have set up on-wiki schedules for events in those spaces. But in practice, if the open spaces and schedule is not set up online in advance, then it becomes very difficult to set up group meetings in a set location close to or during the conference. Organizing at Wikimanias is sensitive and the conference planners need a schedule under their control, and there should be some open schedule space, and both should be very easy to find and as close together as possible.
yours,
Certainly, any topics that would have been welcome and appropriate at a the WikiConference would be welcome at Wikimania, with no need of distinct tracks?
Certainly, some meetings will have discussion topic that would be generally less interesting to an international audience; but then remain suitable for meetups. (Speaking of which, there will be a lot of available space and time for both organized and impromptu meetings in Montreal that are self-organized by the participants; both BoF sessions that are organized in advance with scheduled time and places as well as space set aside for unconferency impromptu meetings).
That said, if you feel the need to avoid division of audience, we do have two full days of preconference during which it may be possible to make additional meeting space avaliable for a more "distinct" WikiConference?
-- Coren / Marc
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- Lane Rasberry user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia 206.801.0814 lane@bluerasberry.com
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hey,
On 2016-07-07 08:27 AM, Lane Rasberry wrote:
Backing up - one way to improve Wikimania to meet this and other demands is to
- Have extra spaces for small meetups
- Put those spaces on a public schedule which can be edited by the
community
So, in practice, that already exists for Montreal in two flavours:
(a) Bird-of-a-Feather sessions, which are open to anyone to schedule (in advance) and have reserved meeting space. Those will be open for reservation from about three months before the event to as late as we can make it and still have them appear in the programme. Those are ideal for preplanned meetings and probably what you'd use for the North American meetups.
(b) Unconferency meetups, that are *not* scheduled in advance, but for which both meeting space and a common scheduling system (think "whiteboard") are made available for ad-hoc meetings during the conference and preconference. Any room which had been set aside for the BoF that was not used will be added to the pool, but there /will/ be meeting space even if all of the BoF slots are taken.
-- Coren / Marc
Lodewijk and Marc -
Others might express their own needs but having open spaces like you described would satisfy me. If this has happened in previous years then I was less conscious of it when I was enjoying them, and more conscious of it when I felt its absence.
thanks -
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:23 AM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
Hey,
On 2016-07-07 08:27 AM, Lane Rasberry wrote:
Backing up - one way to improve Wikimania to meet this and other demands is to
- Have extra spaces for small meetups
- Put those spaces on a public schedule which can be edited by the
community
So, in practice, that already exists for Montreal in two flavours:
(a) Bird-of-a-Feather sessions, which are open to anyone to schedule (in advance) and have reserved meeting space. Those will be open for reservation from about three months before the event to as late as we can make it and still have them appear in the programme. Those are ideal for preplanned meetings and probably what you'd use for the North American meetups.
(b) Unconferency meetups, that are *not* scheduled in advance, but for which both meeting space and a common scheduling system (think "whiteboard") are made available for ad-hoc meetings during the conference and preconference. Any room which had been set aside for the BoF that was not used will be added to the pool, but there /will/ be meeting space even if all of the BoF slots are taken.
-- Coren / Marc
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org