Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
*Butch Bustria*
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team
I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but on behalf of a friend who is considering attending I'd like to know about the policy on gendered restrooms in the conference venue. She is very comfortable with the LGBTQ community and celebrates diversity, but is concerned about the possibility of AMAB individuals who self-identify as women using the women's restrooms. I have been to several Wikimanias and I don't recall any related problems having occurred, but I do see that it is a vald concern as there have been incidients of harassment by males who identify as women in other public events.
Thanks, best wishes for a safe and fruitful Wikimania :)
On Fri, 23 Jun 2023, 20:22 Wikimania, wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
*Butch Bustria*
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi Mina! I am not sure if we got to meet online, but I see you are Greek and involved in Outreach activities so I hope we will eventually even meet in person in the Balkans. Meanwhile I see you attended many Wikimanias and glad to see you have friendly friends who claim to be pro diversity and confortable with LGBTQ folx, so I am curious about the one you ask a question for. Is she not comfortable asking this question herself? Why do you think that is the case?
Queering Wikipedia 2023 event organizing team is planning offline events and we would like to have them welcoming to all well intendended and tolerant folx. I am curious to know which exact incidents of harassment by 'males who identify as women' do you refer to? Also as you think it is a valid concern, I would love to know why you think this could happen in Wikimania? Because people are mostly Wikipedians and Wikimedians? (hope your friend did not misunderstand the wikiMANIA part of the brand)
Unrelated to our context, do you and your friend think harassment happens because someone is not-cis? I would think it is mostly because those people are harassers and they are in bigger numbers as cis.
Thank you for your answers in advance!
Best Z. Blace
p.s. As a neo-nazi and right-wing militants attack victim (also known to be on their lists) I would love to raise concerns over tolerance for neo-nazi, right-wing and pro-gun militants in Wikimedia, but there was historically no or very little support for concrete work, so I would love for us to brainstorm at one point what makes sense to do, where and when.
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 8:23 PM Mina Theofilatou saintfevrier@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but on behalf of a friend who is considering attending I'd like to know about the policy on gendered restrooms in the conference venue. She is very comfortable with the LGBTQ community and celebrates diversity, but is concerned about the possibility of AMAB individuals who self-identify as women using the women's restrooms. I have been to several Wikimanias and I don't recall any related problems having occurred, but I do see that it is a vald concern as there have been incidients of harassment by males who identify as women in other public events.
Thanks, best wishes for a safe and fruitful Wikimania :)
On Fri, 23 Jun 2023, 20:22 Wikimania, wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
*Butch Bustria*
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Statement from the Core Organizing Team & Wikimedia Foundation
*Incidents of harassment can happen regardless of gender identity. It's important not to generalize or assume that harassment is done by a specific group of people. Please adhere and refer to the Wikimedia Friendly Space Policy and Universal Code of Conduct. Per the policies, harassment of any kind, in any place, by anyone will not be tolerated at Wikimania.*
*Wikimania is a trans-inclusive event and they should be afforded the same rights and access to facilities as any other person. Restrooms are open to people based on self-identification. There will also be gender neutral restrooms available.*
Butch Bustria On behalf of the ESEAP Wikimania 2023 Core Organizing Team
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 2:22 AM Mina Theofilatou saintfevrier@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but on behalf of a friend who is considering attending I'd like to know about the policy on gendered restrooms in the conference venue. She is very comfortable with the LGBTQ community and celebrates diversity, but is concerned about the possibility of AMAB individuals who self-identify as women using the women's restrooms. I have been to several Wikimanias and I don't recall any related problems having occurred, but I do see that it is a vald concern as there have been incidients of harassment by males who identify as women in other public events.
Thanks, best wishes for a safe and fruitful Wikimania :)
On Fri, 23 Jun 2023, 20:22 Wikimania, wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
*Butch Bustria*
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
trip to singapore kindly share list of candidate and is it free of cost?
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 22:52 Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
*Butch Bustria*
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Did u get the scholarship?
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 12:05 AM Aryan Kumar Paswan pradipguhilote@gmail.com wrote:
trip to singapore kindly share list of candidate and is it free of cost?
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 22:52 Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
*Butch Bustria*
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Dear organizers - for the (self announced) transparency plan commitment of publishing list of scholarship grantees in May - it would be useful to do it at least in June as we are almost in July.
It would also likely reduce the number of repeating questions.
Best Z. Blace
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 7:15 AM Mohd Sayeed sayeed8545@gmail.com wrote:
Did u get the scholarship?
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 12:05 AM Aryan Kumar Paswan <
pradipguhilote@gmail.com> wrote:
trip to singapore kindly share list of candidate and is it free of cost?
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 22:52 Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a
lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but
everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
Butch Bustria
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi Zeljko,
Sorry if I can't spell your name correctly.
It's quite an interesting subject though. Here are some links about that might help explain. I think the Singapore PM had it mentioned that they might need to adopt a third gender policy, so it might not earlier recognized. Can't find the link, it's a speech.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Singapore
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/moe-gender-identity-issues-gender-...
Kind regards,
Handoko Suwono
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 12:25 Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Dear organizers - for the (self announced) transparency plan commitment of publishing list of scholarship grantees in May - it would be useful to do it at least in June as we are almost in July.
It would also likely reduce the number of repeating questions.
Best Z. Blace
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 7:15 AM Mohd Sayeed sayeed8545@gmail.com wrote:
Did u get the scholarship?
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 12:05 AM Aryan Kumar Paswan <
pradipguhilote@gmail.com> wrote:
trip to singapore kindly share list of candidate and is it free of cost?
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 22:52 Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving
a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but
everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
Butch Bustria
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
OK so I've finally found some time to sit at my computer and write a proper reply. I will refrain from addressing Z.'s concerns on my eligibility as a scholarship recipient (and all the related sarcasm) for Wikimania 2023 as I have already replied to that on the renamed thread "selection criteria".
I read through the comments on gender policy in this thread and I'm afraid that I will have to be somewhat explicit to get my point across.
I am 56 years old (my friend interested in attending Wikimania23 is several years older) and I have been to many conferences on four continents, I'd say over a hundred (not all Wikimedia-related of course). I am a cis-gender woman - apologies if I'm not using the right terms, until recently "woman" or "female" was enough to describe what I am - and naturally I have used dozens of women's restrooms (and locker rooms occasionally). Not once have I experienced a disturbing incident involving a man or male in a space designated for women because quite simply, I have never seen a man - a male-presenting individual, that is - using the space (except for the occasional "emergency", whereby the male uses the women's toilet and apologises for doing so if he encounters a woman while "relieving" himself. I've had to do the same on a few occasions in the men's toilets). Such was the situation in the *pre*-self-identification era. It is very possible that throughout the years I have encountered trans women in the women's restrooms without even being aware of it: a female-presenting trans individual in a space designated for women is naturally, perfectly acceptable and no cause for concern.
In the era of self-identification however, an individual who presents as a man - with a beard etc. features of a male physique - can self-identify as a woman (female) and proceed to use spaces designated for women. So, in the hypothetical case that this man who identifies as a woman exits the bathroom stall with his penis in his hand, shaking off the extra urine (apologies for being explicit) - a frequent and non-offensive action in men's restrooms, especially those with urinals - encounters a woman and the woman is offended, would she be entitled to express her discomfort to Trust and Safety? (apologies if the name of the dept has changed, that's the name I remember). Or would she get a reply along the lines of "we understand that you feel offended and that you experienced discomfort from the encounter, but our gender policy is self-identification and this man identifies as a woman so (s)he can use the women's restrooms and there's nothing we can do about it".
Same goes for AFAB individuals who are female-presenting but identify as men. A man using the men's toilets may feel discomfort at the sight of e.g. period blood and pads (again, apologies for the explicitness!) in a stall.
I have tried to describe the issue as respectfully as possible. Again, apologies for being explicit, it was inevitable. I do agree that *generally* Wikipedians are respectful of others and would *generally* not intentionally cause discomfort to others using gender-designated toilets - or worse yet, go so far as to harass - but if norms of common decency were self-evident to everyone, there would be no need for a Trust and Safety dept in the first place.
Best, Mina
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail Χωρίς ιούς.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 8:25 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Dear organizers - for the (self announced) transparency plan commitment of publishing list of scholarship grantees in May - it would be useful to do it at least in June as we are almost in July.
It would also likely reduce the number of repeating questions.
Best Z. Blace
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 7:15 AM Mohd Sayeed sayeed8545@gmail.com wrote:
Did u get the scholarship?
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 12:05 AM Aryan Kumar Paswan <
pradipguhilote@gmail.com> wrote:
trip to singapore kindly share list of candidate and is it free of cost?
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 22:52 Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving
a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but
everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
Butch Bustria
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Hi Mina,
It can always be appreciated when people engage in respectful conversations about complex issues, and I can imagine this can be uncomfortable. I would not consider myself an expert on this issue in any way, and I can't speak for the organizers. The possible encounters that you're describing in your latest email feel of a different order than the "incidients (sic) of harassment by males who identify as women" that you referred to earlier. I think with those harassment incidents, the organizers have been rather clear: harassment is unacceptable in any gender combination, in any situation. I hope this is at least clear.
What you're describing in your more recent email sound like practices that are a bit far-fetched (I cannot recall encountering these men performing such a "frequent and non-offensive action in men's restrooms" over my many years of using men's restrooms) but I can't be certain whether this is perhaps commonplace in other settings. I'm not sure how constructive it would be to exchange references to reliable sources supporting claims whether the behavior your friend fears, indeed is at all commonplace - but I would invite you to at least reflect yourself how common these incidents are compared to equally serious incidents that do not involve any gender-identification concerns, and whether you would feel those sources are solid enough that you would feel comfortable adding them to a Wikipedia article.
I hope you can appreciate that the organizers create a trans-inclusive environment where people don't have to rely on other peoples' judgement in deciding whether their gender is "correct" in respect to how they look. I am also assuming that any attempt to spell out a detailed policy on what is acceptable in bathrooms will quickly be met with exceptions and edge cases that will be uncomfortable to some. The more important cornerstone to me is the general Friendly Space policy and code of conduct which applies to this event: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Friendly_space_policy and https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Policy:Code_of_conduct_policy . These provide general principles that you could interpret in specific situations, rather than trying to legislate every possible hypothetical. Important elements that I would consider in this case: "Be respectful in all interactions and communications. Be aware of your impact and how your contribution (messages, discussion, comments) may be affecting people. " and "Treat other people with respect".
Finally, I find it interesting that you choose to apologize for explicit language and perhaps mistaking the name of a department, but not for the possible feelings of rejection that your email could invoke with community members that might fall under your description of "AMAB individuals who self-identify as women". I hope you can imagine this is likely an uncomfortable conversation to them at least, and acknowledging this may not be enough, but is at least a small step towards this welcoming environment for everyone.
Best, Lodewijk
On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 2:57 PM Mina Theofilatou saintfevrier@gmail.com wrote:
OK so I've finally found some time to sit at my computer and write a proper reply. I will refrain from addressing Z.'s concerns on my eligibility as a scholarship recipient (and all the related sarcasm) for Wikimania 2023 as I have already replied to that on the renamed thread "selection criteria".
I read through the comments on gender policy in this thread and I'm afraid that I will have to be somewhat explicit to get my point across.
I am 56 years old (my friend interested in attending Wikimania23 is several years older) and I have been to many conferences on four continents, I'd say over a hundred (not all Wikimedia-related of course). I am a cis-gender woman - apologies if I'm not using the right terms, until recently "woman" or "female" was enough to describe what I am - and naturally I have used dozens of women's restrooms (and locker rooms occasionally). Not once have I experienced a disturbing incident involving a man or male in a space designated for women because quite simply, I have never seen a man - a male-presenting individual, that is - using the space (except for the occasional "emergency", whereby the male uses the women's toilet and apologises for doing so if he encounters a woman while "relieving" himself. I've had to do the same on a few occasions in the men's toilets). Such was the situation in the *pre*-self-identification era. It is very possible that throughout the years I have encountered trans women in the women's restrooms without even being aware of it: a female-presenting trans individual in a space designated for women is naturally, perfectly acceptable and no cause for concern.
In the era of self-identification however, an individual who presents as a man - with a beard etc. features of a male physique - can self-identify as a woman (female) and proceed to use spaces designated for women. So, in the hypothetical case that this man who identifies as a woman exits the bathroom stall with his penis in his hand, shaking off the extra urine (apologies for being explicit) - a frequent and non-offensive action in men's restrooms, especially those with urinals - encounters a woman and the woman is offended, would she be entitled to express her discomfort to Trust and Safety? (apologies if the name of the dept has changed, that's the name I remember). Or would she get a reply along the lines of "we understand that you feel offended and that you experienced discomfort from the encounter, but our gender policy is self-identification and this man identifies as a woman so (s)he can use the women's restrooms and there's nothing we can do about it".
Same goes for AFAB individuals who are female-presenting but identify as men. A man using the men's toilets may feel discomfort at the sight of e.g. period blood and pads (again, apologies for the explicitness!) in a stall.
I have tried to describe the issue as respectfully as possible. Again, apologies for being explicit, it was inevitable. I do agree that *generally* Wikipedians are respectful of others and would *generally* not intentionally cause discomfort to others using gender-designated toilets - or worse yet, go so far as to harass - but if norms of common decency were self-evident to everyone, there would be no need for a Trust and Safety dept in the first place.
Best, Mina
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail Χωρίς ιούς.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#m_617256864847002357_m_-6370407639067422791_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 8:25 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Dear organizers - for the (self announced) transparency plan commitment of publishing list of scholarship grantees in May - it would be useful to do it at least in June as we are almost in July.
It would also likely reduce the number of repeating questions.
Best Z. Blace
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 7:15 AM Mohd Sayeed sayeed8545@gmail.com wrote:
Did u get the scholarship?
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 12:05 AM Aryan Kumar Paswan <
pradipguhilote@gmail.com> wrote:
trip to singapore kindly share list of candidate and is it free of
cost?
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 22:52 Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving
a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore,
but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
Butch Bustria
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Hi Lodewijk and Claudia and thanks for your replies.
Apologies if I used the wrong word in my original email: I agree with you that the situations I am describing are not harassment per se, so I used the word "discomfort" in the description of what I meant. Sincere apologies to any list members who may feel offended, that was not my intention. I was merely relaying the concerns of my friend, to the extent that they sounded reasonable to me.
As for your further comments, which go so far as to name me "transphobic", well that is one of the reasons I have distanced myself from the Wikimedia Movement at this stage. I had distanced myself in the past too, after an incident at Wikimania in 2016 which caused me severe discomfort (seems that "harassment" is a sensitive word so I will avoid it, even though it was acknowledged by T&S that it was indeed that. I got an apologetic email in private, even though I had specifically requested that any communication be public as was the incident. Z, if you're reading, I'm all for public communication when the issues being discussed have been initiated in public. To cut a long story short, I'm certain that the "Code of Conduct" and "friendly space policy" guidelines would command that shouting at and intimidating a fellow Wikipedian in a public space in the presence of many Wikipedians and a T&S staff member is not acceptable. Noone stepped in to stop the offender on the spot, not even the T&S employee: they just watched while I was being shouted at. I made a complaint and after months of investigation I managed to elicit a response from the "investigating" team. I had no choice but to make it public so I uploaded a screenshot of the email to Commons. I've linked to the screenshot below to help you understand what I am talking about, and why I have little confidence in Trust and Safety). I gradually gained back my confidence in the movement and participated for another four years, i.e. 2017-2021, but when I realised in 2022 that NPOV has gone totally out the window I'm through with the Movement.
Back to the "transphobic" name-calling: it seems that anyone who expresses the slightest concern about gender policies is easily branded as transphobic. Some even go so far as to brand them as "alt right". Blaire White, an extremely attractive and happy trans woman who is calling out the pressure being exerted on minors to transition at ages when the brain is still developing, is "transphobic". Scott Newgent is "transphobic". "What is a Woman '' is a documentary for "transphobics". Johanna Olson-Kennedy, who publicly addressed parents at a conference saying that "the good thing about double mastectomies is that if the girl regrets at a later point in her life, she can go ahead and get breasts" is a "hero". Why am I going into such detail? Well because two of the participants in this list encouraged me to write an article on Wikipedia about it. Have you any idea how difficult it is to express so much as an inkling of "the other side of the story" to a "contentious topic"? But isn't that what NPOV is supposed to be about? Any attempts I have made to add this simple sentence in a neutral manner with a reliable source to Johanna Olson-Kennedy's article was met with rapid reverts and even a deletion discussion. The result was "keep", but do you really think I am willing to expend more time and energy on edit-warring over edits that *used to be* perfectly acceptable? Same for my efforts on John Ioannidis's page: one of the most highly cited researchers in the world is being blatantly slandered for his objections to lockdowns during the Covid-19 crisis. By whom? By a certain globally unimportant doctor who goes by the name of David Gorski. Ever heard of him? Oh, but on Wikipedia his blog "Science Based Medicine" seems to be the epitome of reliability in anything from Covid to transgender procedures on underage girls.
I look at the history of articles. I also look at discussion pages, and quite frankly these are currently the most effective ways of obtaining reliable information on Wikipedia. So in one such session, when I looked at the history of "John Ioannidis" and noticed that I was not the only one trying to "inject" some NPOV into the Covid-19 paragraph of the article, I checked the contribs of the other editor and saw that he had edited the page "Irreversible Damage". That's how I learned about that book, which I ordered and read, along with TRANS by Helen Joyce (a notable author with an article on Wikipedia). Interestingly, Gorski was involved in this issue too: one of the co-founders of SBM had written a positive review for "Irreversible Damage: the Transgender Craze Seducing our Daughters", and the review remained on the website for seven months. Then, after *seven months* the article was taken down and a slandering ensued. Are we supposed to believe that the science behind the book changed 180 degrees in seven months?
Returning to the original issue, hmm. If everyone at Wikimania is so quick to be offended by the slightest concern about gender policies, then perhaps it's better if we """transphobic"""", """"conservative"""", """"alt-right""" folks (lots of quotation marks) simply not attend? I will relay this to my friend. It has been an enlightening discussion, thank you.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Resolution_for_report_of...
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail Χωρίς ιούς.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 1:39 AM effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Mina,
It can always be appreciated when people engage in respectful conversations about complex issues, and I can imagine this can be uncomfortable. I would not consider myself an expert on this issue in any way, and I can't speak for the organizers. The possible encounters that you're describing in your latest email feel of a different order than the "incidients (sic) of harassment by males who identify as women" that you referred to earlier. I think with those harassment incidents, the organizers have been rather clear: harassment is unacceptable in any gender combination, in any situation. I hope this is at least clear.
What you're describing in your more recent email sound like practices that are a bit far-fetched (I cannot recall encountering these men performing such a "frequent and non-offensive action in men's restrooms" over my many years of using men's restrooms) but I can't be certain whether this is perhaps commonplace in other settings. I'm not sure how constructive it would be to exchange references to reliable sources supporting claims whether the behavior your friend fears, indeed is at all commonplace - but I would invite you to at least reflect yourself how common these incidents are compared to equally serious incidents that do not involve any gender-identification concerns, and whether you would feel those sources are solid enough that you would feel comfortable adding them to a Wikipedia article.
I hope you can appreciate that the organizers create a trans-inclusive environment where people don't have to rely on other peoples' judgement in deciding whether their gender is "correct" in respect to how they look. I am also assuming that any attempt to spell out a detailed policy on what is acceptable in bathrooms will quickly be met with exceptions and edge cases that will be uncomfortable to some. The more important cornerstone to me is the general Friendly Space policy and code of conduct which applies to this event: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Friendly_space_policy and https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Policy:Code_of_conduct_policy . These provide general principles that you could interpret in specific situations, rather than trying to legislate every possible hypothetical. Important elements that I would consider in this case: "Be respectful in all interactions and communications. Be aware of your impact and how your contribution (messages, discussion, comments) may be affecting people. " and "Treat other people with respect".
Finally, I find it interesting that you choose to apologize for explicit language and perhaps mistaking the name of a department, but not for the possible feelings of rejection that your email could invoke with community members that might fall under your description of "AMAB individuals who self-identify as women". I hope you can imagine this is likely an uncomfortable conversation to them at least, and acknowledging this may not be enough, but is at least a small step towards this welcoming environment for everyone.
Best, Lodewijk
On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 2:57 PM Mina Theofilatou saintfevrier@gmail.com wrote:
OK so I've finally found some time to sit at my computer and write a proper reply. I will refrain from addressing Z.'s concerns on my eligibility as a scholarship recipient (and all the related sarcasm) for Wikimania 2023 as I have already replied to that on the renamed thread "selection criteria".
I read through the comments on gender policy in this thread and I'm afraid that I will have to be somewhat explicit to get my point across.
I am 56 years old (my friend interested in attending Wikimania23 is several years older) and I have been to many conferences on four continents, I'd say over a hundred (not all Wikimedia-related of course). I am a cis-gender woman - apologies if I'm not using the right terms, until recently "woman" or "female" was enough to describe what I am - and naturally I have used dozens of women's restrooms (and locker rooms occasionally). Not once have I experienced a disturbing incident involving a man or male in a space designated for women because quite simply, I have never seen a man - a male-presenting individual, that is - using the space (except for the occasional "emergency", whereby the male uses the women's toilet and apologises for doing so if he encounters a woman while "relieving" himself. I've had to do the same on a few occasions in the men's toilets). Such was the situation in the *pre*-self-identification era. It is very possible that throughout the years I have encountered trans women in the women's restrooms without even being aware of it: a female-presenting trans individual in a space designated for women is naturally, perfectly acceptable and no cause for concern.
In the era of self-identification however, an individual who presents as a man - with a beard etc. features of a male physique - can self-identify as a woman (female) and proceed to use spaces designated for women. So, in the hypothetical case that this man who identifies as a woman exits the bathroom stall with his penis in his hand, shaking off the extra urine (apologies for being explicit) - a frequent and non-offensive action in men's restrooms, especially those with urinals - encounters a woman and the woman is offended, would she be entitled to express her discomfort to Trust and Safety? (apologies if the name of the dept has changed, that's the name I remember). Or would she get a reply along the lines of "we understand that you feel offended and that you experienced discomfort from the encounter, but our gender policy is self-identification and this man identifies as a woman so (s)he can use the women's restrooms and there's nothing we can do about it".
Same goes for AFAB individuals who are female-presenting but identify as men. A man using the men's toilets may feel discomfort at the sight of e.g. period blood and pads (again, apologies for the explicitness!) in a stall.
I have tried to describe the issue as respectfully as possible. Again, apologies for being explicit, it was inevitable. I do agree that *generally* Wikipedians are respectful of others and would *generally* not intentionally cause discomfort to others using gender-designated toilets - or worse yet, go so far as to harass - but if norms of common decency were self-evident to everyone, there would be no need for a Trust and Safety dept in the first place.
Best, Mina
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail Χωρίς ιούς.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#m_-8386801440339898965_m_617256864847002357_m_-6370407639067422791_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 8:25 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Dear organizers - for the (self announced) transparency plan commitment of publishing list of scholarship grantees in May - it would be useful to do it at least in June as we are almost in July.
It would also likely reduce the number of repeating questions.
Best Z. Blace
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 7:15 AM Mohd Sayeed sayeed8545@gmail.com wrote:
Did u get the scholarship?
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 12:05 AM Aryan Kumar Paswan <
pradipguhilote@gmail.com> wrote:
trip to singapore kindly share list of candidate and is it free of
cost?
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 22:52 Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org
wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been
receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore,
but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
Butch Bustria
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to
wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Sorry but I have a hard time understanding the issue here - in fact this just comes across as quite transphobic.As you write yourself, males* and females* sometimes use each others bathrooms. I never encountered a bathroom situation where I couldn't avoid looking to closely at what people do or not do at a pissoir when I passed them. If someone - for some reason that is beyond me - is offended by (used) hygiene products, don't look into the bin. Easy.CheersClaudia -------- Original message --------From: Mina Theofilatou saintfevrier@gmail.com Date: 28/06/2023 23:58 (GMT+01:00) To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)" wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimania-l] Re: Planning your trip to Singapore for Wikimania 2023 OK so I've finally found some time to sit at my computer and write a proper reply. I will refrain from addressing Z.'s concerns on my eligibility as a scholarship recipient (and all the related sarcasm) for Wikimania 2023 as I have already replied to that on the renamed thread "selection criteria". I read through the comments on gender policy in this thread and I'm afraid that I will have to be somewhat explicit to get my point across. I am 56 years old (my friend interested in attending Wikimania23 is several years older) and I have been to many conferences on four continents, I'd say over a hundred (not all Wikimedia-related of course). I am a cis-gender woman - apologies if I'm not using the right terms, until recently "woman" or "female" was enough to describe what I am - and naturally I have used dozens of women's restrooms (and locker rooms occasionally). Not once have I experienced a disturbing incident involving a man or male in a space designated for women because quite simply, I have never seen a man - a male-presenting individual, that is - using the space (except for the occasional "emergency", whereby the male uses the women's toilet and apologises for doing so if he encounters a woman while "relieving" himself. I've had to do the same on a few occasions in the men's toilets). Such was the situation in the pre-self-identification era. It is very possible that throughout the years I have encountered trans women in the women's restrooms without even being aware of it: a female-presenting trans individual in a space designated for women is naturally, perfectly acceptable and no cause for concern.In the era of self-identification however, an individual who presents as a man - with a beard etc. features of a male physique - can self-identify as a woman (female) and proceed to use spaces designated for women. So, in the hypothetical case that this man who identifies as a woman exits the bathroom stall with his penis in his hand, shaking off the extra urine (apologies for being explicit) - a frequent and non-offensive action in men's restrooms, especially those with urinals - encounters a woman and the woman is offended, would she be entitled to express her discomfort to Trust and Safety? (apologies if the name of the dept has changed, that's the name I remember). Or would she get a reply along the lines of "we understand that you feel offended and that you experienced discomfort from the encounter, but our gender policy is self-identification and this man identifies as a woman so (s)he can use the women's restrooms and there's nothing we can do about it". Same goes for AFAB individuals who are female-presenting but identify as men. A man using the men's toilets may feel discomfort at the sight of e.g. period blood and pads (again, apologies for the explicitness!) in a stall. I have tried to describe the issue as respectfully as possible. Again, apologies for being explicit, it was inevitable. I do agree that *generally* Wikipedians are respectful of others and would *generally* not intentionally cause discomfort to others using gender-designated toilets - or worse yet, go so far as to harass - but if norms of common decency were self-evident to everyone, there would be no need for a Trust and Safety dept in the first place. Best,MinaΧωρίς ιούς.www.avast.comOn Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 8:25 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:Dear organizers - for the (self announced) transparency plan commitment of publishing list of scholarship grantees in May - it would be useful to do it at least in June as we are almost in July. It would also likely reduce the number of repeating questions.Best Z. Blace
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 7:15 AM Mohd Sayeed sayeed8545@gmail.com wrote:
Did u get the scholarship?
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 12:05 AM Aryan Kumar Paswan pradipguhilote@gmail.com wrote:
trip to singapore kindly share list of candidate and is it free of cost?
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 22:52 Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
Butch Bustria
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi everyone!
I talked with some Friends in Latin America and some of them have their trips planed, there's some mail or communication that I've missed?
I'm a little worried about something that maybe I have to do about.
El vie, 23 de jun. de 2023 1:22 p. m., Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org escribió:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
*Butch Bustria*
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi Everyone,
If you are from Latin America or Africa or someone who travelled on those continents, kindly follow what was stated on https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Visas#Yellow_Fever_vaccination . A traveller must present a yellow fever vaccination card to the immigration/ border officer at the Singapore airport.
Kind regards,
*Butch Bustria* *Event Lead* *ESEAP Wikimania 2023 Core Organizing Team*
On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 2:33 AM Olga Viota olga.lidi@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone!
I talked with some Friends in Latin America and some of them have their trips planed, there's some mail or communication that I've missed?
I'm a little worried about something that maybe I have to do about.
El vie, 23 de jun. de 2023 1:22 p. m., Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org escribió:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
*Butch Bustria*
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Good evening how do I know that I have visa to Singapore. How much will it cost me on atrip for three days? Derrick from Uganda
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 8:22 PM Wikimania wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
*Butch Bustria*
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org