Hi Folks - I just posted my thoughts on a "Change the Ratio" campaign for Wikipediahttp://1x57.com/2011/09/30/changing-the-ratio-wikipedias-battle-for-diversity-part-iii/, that includes a logo my company created with the design help of JESS3 (who did that State of Wikipedia video: http://jess3.com/the-state-of-wikipedia/ ).
In it I mention a Facebook event that I'll be promoting this weekend for people to change their profile pic to the Change the Ratio logo on Ada Lovelace day (one week from today, Friday Oct 7): https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=154261054664442
I'd love to hear your thoughts/comments. There have been so many great ideas generated on how to address the gendergap issue. I'd love to see more people executing ideas at the grassroots level and seeing what works:)
Best, Amy
What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}} (gender-neutral point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a format similar to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV and could use an image like http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg The text could say something like: "The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved." Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011 These categories can help identify articles with active disputes. Thoughts? Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of? Best,Andreas
Andreas, my preference would be to stick with the NPOV banner we have (which is pretty sufficient for all manner of non-neutrality issues), and instead encourage people who use it to actually open a discussion on the talk page when applying the template.
It is all too common that someone will slap the banner on the top of an article, and move on without even mentioning what the problem is. Sometimes the banner remains for months or years without any discussion. I don't think that is particularly helpful; I would love to see people concerned with gender issues (along with many other issues) simply work on asserting their concerns in a clear and productive manner on the discussion page.
Also, this might make a great discussion on-wiki discussion topic, for instance at: http://enwp.org/WT:FEMINISM
-Pete
On Sep 30, 2011, at 8:30 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}} (gender-neutral point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a format similar to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV
and could use an image like
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg
The text could say something like:
"The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved."
Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011
These categories can help identify articles with active disputes.
Thoughts?
Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of?
Best, Andreas _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Pete Forsyth peteforsyth@gmail.com 503-383-9454 mobile
There are other more powerful groups that would use the precedent to create a template that would censor a number of articles that already are heavily patrolled and censored by organized groups of editors (many of them surely paid, not that they'd ever admit it).
Instead use the POV template and make editors think by explaining the POV template on the talk page. And mention the problem on Wikiproject Feminism.
On 9/30/2011 11:30 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}} (gender-neutral point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a format similar to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV
and could use an image like
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg
The text could say something like:
"The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved."
Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011
These categories can help identify articles with active disputes.
Thoughts?
Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of?
Best, Andreas
We also have a "controversial" template...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Controversial
I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop shopping space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled with lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarghhhh
-Sarah
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 10:21 AM, carolmooredc@verizon.net wrote:
There are other more powerful groups that would use the precedent to create a template that would censor a number of articles that already are heavily patrolled and censored by organized groups of editors (many of them surely paid, not that they'd ever admit it).
Instead use the POV template and make editors think by explaining the POV template on the talk page. And mention the problem on Wikiproject Feminism.
On 9/30/2011 11:30 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}} (gender-neutral point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a format similar to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV
and could use an image like
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg
The text could say something like:
"The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved."
Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011
These categories can help identify articles with active disputes.
Thoughts?
Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of?
Best, Andreas
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop shopping space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled with lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarghhhh
-Sarah
I agree with a gender-specific tag as well. NPOV is (by design) vague and, to me, not quite the fit we need as it is best applied to allegedly non-neutral use of language (in obvious cases of POV language, I just fix it ... there's no need to discuss). We ourselves already have {{globalize}}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize
for the situation of articles reflecting only the experience of one particular region of the world or country. I don't see why gender bias couldn't be addressed the same way.
Daniel Case
Thanks all for the feedback. I've started a discussion on-wiki, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Feminism#Gender_neut... Andreas --- On Sat, 1/10/11, Daniel and Elizabeth Case dancase@frontiernet.net wrote:
From: Daniel and Elizabeth Case dancase@frontiernet.net Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects" gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, 1 October, 2011, 20:29
I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop shopping space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled with lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarghhhh
-Sarah
I agree with a gender-specific tag as well. NPOV is (by design) vague and, to me, not quite the fit we need as it is best applied to allegedly non-neutral use of language (in obvious cases of POV language, I just fix it ... there's no need to discuss). We ourselves already have {{globalize}} http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize for the situation of articles reflecting only the experience of one particular region of the world or country. I don't see why gender bias couldn't be addressed the same way. Daniel Case
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_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case dancase@frontiernet.net wrote:
I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop shopping space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled with lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarghhhh
-Sarah I agree with a gender-specific tag as well. NPOV is (by design) vague and, to me, not quite the fit we need as it is best applied to allegedly non-neutral use of language (in obvious cases of POV language, I just fix it ... there's no need to discuss). We ourselves already have {{globalize}}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize
for the situation of articles reflecting only the experience of one particular region of the world or country. I don't see why gender bias couldn't be addressed the same way.
I was going suggest the Globalize template as well; it's a good model of encouraging broader diversity (The examples and perspective in this article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject) without the boilerplate harsher tone of the stand NPOV template.
Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos)
Just a reminder, we have a conversation started here about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Feminism#Gender_neut...
I also brought up the use of some templates used for gender studies. If we can start contributing to the wiki about this, that'd be wonderful!
Thanks everyone for your input and Jayen466 for taking the initiative,
-Sarah
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.comwrote:
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case dancase@frontiernet.net wrote:
I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop
shopping
space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled
with
lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarghhhh
-Sarah I agree with a gender-specific tag as well. NPOV is (by design) vague and, to me, not quite the fit we need as it is best applied to allegedly non-neutral use of language (in obvious cases of POV language, I just fix
it
... there's no need to discuss). We ourselves already have {{globalize}}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize
for the situation of articles reflecting only the experience of one particular region of the world or country. I don't see why gender bias couldn't be addressed the same way.
I was going suggest the Globalize template as well; it's a good model of encouraging broader diversity (The examples and perspective in this article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject) without the boilerplate harsher tone of the stand NPOV template.
Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos)
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
plus 1 pharos idea!! i think might be passive but powerful way to inform people.
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case dancase@frontiernet.net wrote:
I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop
shopping
space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled
with
lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarghhhh
-Sarah I agree with a gender-specific tag as well. NPOV is (by design) vague and, to me, not quite the fit we need as it is best applied to allegedly non-neutral use of language (in obvious cases of POV language, I just fix
it
... there's no need to discuss). We ourselves already have {{globalize}}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize
for the situation of articles reflecting only the experience of one particular region of the world or country. I don't see why gender bias couldn't be addressed the same way.
I was going suggest the Globalize template as well; it's a good model of encouraging broader diversity (The examples and perspective in this article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject) without the boilerplate harsher tone of the stand NPOV template.
Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos)
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap