Articles about women are getting lost. Lost that is, to Google searches.
For the last two days, Afghanistan has been exploding in demonstrations over Farkhunda, a Kabul woman who was beaten to death and torched by a mob. Even though every major news source has done a piece on her, I can't find an article for her yet in Wikipedia. When it does get written, and finally starts showing up in the search engines, what will it say? "Farkhunda", the logical search term? Or more likely, the more common format: "the murder/lynching/battering/victimization/humiliation of [insert woman's name here]".
For quite some time, the article for Ozgecan Aslan was hidden from Google searches as well, because due to the English Wikipedia's unique naming conventions, the article was called "Murder of Özgecan Aslan".
Maybe it's time to reconsider naming articles about women for the horrible things that were done to them, and give them the simple dignity of their own names. I'm not sure the victimization narrative is the right one anyhow. The Farkhunda story seems to be about her death becoming a rallying point for the way women are treated in Afghanistan, much as Aslan was in Turkey.
What else? Iraqi lawyer Samira Salih al-Nuaimi still comes up 6th in a Google search, *after* the entry for the Daily Mail, because of the idiosyncratic spelling of her name in the article title. But at least you can find her (very, very short) article now.
And since I've already written this much, the article on fistula http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fistula, a problem for a huge number of girls in parts of the Global South, is not very well explained. Compare Female genital mutilation or even Women's rights in 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Women%27s_rights_in_2014&redirect=no. (thx, SV). Also reference the short article on Fatimata Touré https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimata_Tour%C3%A9, whose group in Mali works against fistula.
Note: for Farkhunda, see Twitter photos https://twitter.com/hashtag/Farkhunda?src=hash and WaPo http:// www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/23/afghan-woman-beaten-to-death-for-a-crime-she-didnt-commit-becomes-a-rallying-point-for-activists/
It could just as easily be argued the other way, I think. It's presumptuous and perhaps insulting to purport to create a biography on a person, under her own name, while merely recounting a single tragic occurrence in her life. Since there is often not enough verifiable information to create a biography, it makes some sense to not assert that Wikipedia is doing so. Moreover... It's generally bad practice to apply principles of search engine optimization to editing an encyclopedia.
And as for fistula... That article isn't great, I agree. However, vaginal fistulas are not the only or even the most common use of that term. Even in medicine, they are a subset of the broader phenomena.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Neotarf neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
Articles about women are getting lost. Lost that is, to Google searches.
For the last two days, Afghanistan has been exploding in demonstrations over Farkhunda, a Kabul woman who was beaten to death and torched by a mob. Even though every major news source has done a piece on her, I can't find an article for her yet in Wikipedia. When it does get written, and finally starts showing up in the search engines, what will it say? "Farkhunda", the logical search term? Or more likely, the more common format: "the murder/lynching/battering/victimization/humiliation of [insert woman's name here]".
For quite some time, the article for Ozgecan Aslan was hidden from Google searches as well, because due to the English Wikipedia's unique naming conventions, the article was called "Murder of Özgecan Aslan".
Maybe it's time to reconsider naming articles about women for the horrible things that were done to them, and give them the simple dignity of their own names. I'm not sure the victimization narrative is the right one anyhow. The Farkhunda story seems to be about her death becoming a rallying point for the way women are treated in Afghanistan, much as Aslan was in Turkey.
What else? Iraqi lawyer Samira Salih al-Nuaimi still comes up 6th in a Google search, *after* the entry for the Daily Mail, because of the idiosyncratic spelling of her name in the article title. But at least you can find her (very, very short) article now.
And since I've already written this much, the article on fistula http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fistula, a problem for a huge number of girls in parts of the Global South, is not very well explained. Compare Female genital mutilation or even Women's rights in 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Women%27s_rights_in_2014&redirect=no. (thx, SV). Also reference the short article on Fatimata Touré https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimata_Tour%C3%A9, whose group in Mali works against fistula.
Note: for Farkhunda, see Twitter photos https://twitter.com/hashtag/Farkhunda?src=hash and WaPo http:// www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/23/afghan-woman-beaten-to-death-for-a-crime-she-didnt-commit-becomes-a-rallying-point-for-activists/
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Is there an article on "vaginal fistula"? I would look it up myself, but I'm at work :)
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
It could just as easily be argued the other way, I think. It's presumptuous and perhaps insulting to purport to create a biography on a person, under her own name, while merely recounting a single tragic occurrence in her life. Since there is often not enough verifiable information to create a biography, it makes some sense to not assert that Wikipedia is doing so. Moreover... It's generally bad practice to apply principles of search engine optimization to editing an encyclopedia.
And as for fistula... That article isn't great, I agree. However, vaginal fistulas are not the only or even the most common use of that term. Even in medicine, they are a subset of the broader phenomena.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Neotarf neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
Articles about women are getting lost. Lost that is, to Google searches.
For the last two days, Afghanistan has been exploding in demonstrations over Farkhunda, a Kabul woman who was beaten to death and torched by a mob. Even though every major news source has done a piece on her, I can't find an article for her yet in Wikipedia. When it does get written, and finally starts showing up in the search engines, what will it say? "Farkhunda", the logical search term? Or more likely, the more common format: "the murder/lynching/battering/victimization/humiliation of [insert woman's name here]".
For quite some time, the article for Ozgecan Aslan was hidden from Google searches as well, because due to the English Wikipedia's unique naming conventions, the article was called "Murder of Özgecan Aslan".
Maybe it's time to reconsider naming articles about women for the horrible things that were done to them, and give them the simple dignity of their own names. I'm not sure the victimization narrative is the right one anyhow. The Farkhunda story seems to be about her death becoming a rallying point for the way women are treated in Afghanistan, much as Aslan was in Turkey.
What else? Iraqi lawyer Samira Salih al-Nuaimi still comes up 6th in a Google search, *after* the entry for the Daily Mail, because of the idiosyncratic spelling of her name in the article title. But at least you can find her (very, very short) article now.
And since I've already written this much, the article on fistula http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fistula, a problem for a huge number of girls in parts of the Global South, is not very well explained. Compare Female genital mutilation or even Women's rights in 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Women%27s_rights_in_2014&redirect=no. (thx, SV). Also reference the short article on Fatimata Touré https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimata_Tour%C3%A9, whose group in Mali works against fistula.
Note: for Farkhunda, see Twitter photos https://twitter.com/hashtag/Farkhunda?src=hash and WaPo http:// www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/23/afghan-woman-beaten-to-death-for-a-crime-she-didnt-commit-becomes-a-rallying-point-for-activists/
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On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
Is there an article on "vaginal fistula"? I would look it up myself, but I'm at work :)
There is indeed. And also "rectovaginal fistula" - its definitely a cluster of articles that can use some TLC, but the coverage is there and fairly broad and available.
Hmm, it just occurred to me that Jesus was probably not notable until after his death. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to move Jesus => Murder of Jesus.
Fistulas. Thanks for the comments about this. I created Fatimata Touré on Simple Wikipedia https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimata_Tour%C3%A9, and was thinking about filling in the red link for fistula.
On en.wp there is:
Rectovaginal fistula. Five short paragraphs with a nice illustration, but I can't tell what it illustrates. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectovaginal_fistula
Obstetric fistula. A huge and formidable article--much too long to go over with a learner's dictionary, although someone has started a stub on simple.wp. This looks important though, at least parts of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetric_fistula
Vesicovaginal fistula. No pictures, and written in very medical terminology, but this seems related to Africa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesicovaginal_fistula
Of the three, I would say the first one would be the easiest to modify for simple.wp, as far as being able to get the information across.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
Is there an article on "vaginal fistula"? I would look it up myself, but I'm at work :)
There is indeed. And also "rectovaginal fistula" - its definitely a cluster of articles that can use some TLC, but the coverage is there and fairly broad and available.
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Hmm, it just occurred to me that Jesus was probably not notable until after his death. I wonder if anyone has ever >tried to move Jesus => Murder of Jesus.
I think the correct title would be “Execution of Jesus Christ”. Daniel Case
Re: [[Murder of Sherri Rasmussen]], the article is nicely done, and is indeed about the case itself, and the discovery of the facts in the case. Even better that it does not give oxygen and notoriety/recognition to criminals.
In the case of individuals who become symbols for a cause, I don't see that it matters whether there is enough information for a biography or whether it follows the exact format for a formal biography. Often these events take on a life of their own, and in a span of years, trigger formation of organizations and legislation invoking the individual involved in that particular event. The alamo is not just the alamo.
SEO optimization should be taken into consideration with these names, at the very least as a courtesy to the readers who are trying to find information on the topic. When naming articles, the effect of search engines, particularly Google, is often taken into account, especially when trying to determine Primary Topic--in other words, which article gets to sit at the premium name, and which gets to be listed on a disambiguation page with qualifiers in parenthesis. I was always unhappy that the Guantanamo prisoner Mohammed al-Qahtani got the premium spot, while the Saudi dissident had to be satisfied with Mohammad *Fahad* al-Qahtani. But the ghits bear out the popularity of the first name, so it would be hard to make an issue of it.
[[Execution of Jesus Christ]], LOL, surely "Christ" is NPOV? If you're going with that, you should probably use "martyrdom" :P
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:57 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case < dancase@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Hmm, it just occurred to me that Jesus was probably not notable until
after his death. I wonder if anyone has ever >tried to move Jesus => Murder of Jesus. I think the correct title would be “Execution of Jesus Christ”. [image: Smile]
Daniel Case
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Gynecology articles in general need some serious addressing. I plan on taking them on - especially conditions found more commonly in poor countries - over this summer. :)
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
Is there an article on "vaginal fistula"? I would look it up myself, but I'm at work :)
There is indeed. And also "rectovaginal fistula" - its definitely a cluster of articles that can use some TLC, but the coverage is there and fairly broad and available.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
It could just as easily be argued the other way, I think. It's presumptuous and perhaps insulting to purport to create a >biography on a person, under her own name, while merely recounting a single tragic occurrence in her life. Since there >is often not enough verifiable information to create a biography, it makes some sense to not assert that Wikipedia is >doing so. Moreover... It's generally bad practice to apply principles of search engine optimization to editing an >encyclopedia.
+1. I would also add two other caveats:
a.. Presenting the article as a biography of the victim would also invite coatracking, the insertion of embarrassing information from the victim’s past. It’s easier to justify removing such information when the article is about the event and you can limit that information to “only if it’s relevant” to the death or murder. b.. It would also invite people to reframe the article as a biography of the suspect/perpetrator. While serial killers get this, they’re generally the exception. But I am glad that, when I expanded it, I renamed what had been [[Stephanie Lazarus]] to [[Murder of Sherri Rasmussen]]. Despite a lengthy career in the LAPD, none of what Det. Lazarus did in that capacity made her notable in the way that being investigated by her own colleagues and then convicted of a 20-year-old killing will. The crime was notable, and it got the victim’s name. Daniel Case
For the last two days, Afghanistan has been exploding in demonstrations over Farkhunda, a Kabul woman who was >beaten to death and torched by a mob. Even though every major news source has done a piece on her, I can't find an >article for her yet in Wikipedia. When it does get written, and finally starts showing up in the search engines, what will >it say? "Farkhunda", the logical search term? Or more likely, the more common format: "the >murder/lynching/battering/victimization/humiliation of [insert woman's name here]".
[...]
For quite some time, the article for Ozgecan Aslan was hidden from Google searches as well, because due to the >English Wikipedia's unique naming conventions, the article was called "Murder of Özgecan Aslan".
This is a Google problem, not a Wikipedia problem. And my answer, from personal experience, is basically what you began with: Give it time. In late January I began researching (well, actually, reviewing research I had already done) and writing [[Death of Elisa Lam]], the idea being to get a hook from the article in DYK on February 19, the two-year anniversary of the day her body was found (The people at DYK were, despite the best efforts of myself and another editor there, unable to to do so, so a different hook ran two days later and did a respectable amount of page views). Even at that time, with the article having been in existence for almost a month, it still was on the middle of the second page of Google results. But now it comes up as the first result for “Elisa Lam.” Some tips for gaming PageRank when you create articles like this: a.. Make sure there’s a redirect from the subject’s name to the “death/murder of ...” article. b.. Make sure you have a few internal links from other articles. Lists are good for this: every article about a notable missing-persons case can have an entry in, and link to, [[List of people who disappeared mysteriously]]. Daniel Case
