So a few minutes ago we've had a conversation
about this. Panos will set up a public collaboration space within GRNET. A few developers
will be (part-time) working on this from February for a (so far) unspecified amount of
time. The consensus was that it would be good to start off with some basic usability
testing, to see how well the different tools work for novice users. It'll be very
basic testing, with about 10 subjects from within GRNET (so with a bit of technical bias)
but only those who haven't edited before.
Both Magnus' and my tools will be implemented on a clone of the Greek Wikipedia and
we will set up a fabricated article that works well with both of our editors. It's
only about the usability, not about technical aspects for now. Both editing tools will
have to be adapted and localised, perhaps this can even be done by GRNET developers.
We'll use my usability script that I used before with the Sentence-Level Editing
usability research.
Once this usability testing has been done, we'll decide how to distribute the
efforts, and what will be done. We'll work closely with the GRNET developers to assist
them in working on these projects. Once we'll have more information it will be posted
to this list.
Cheers,
Jan Paul
On 19-Jan-2011, at 23:34, Magnus Manske wrote:
I have added Panos to Skype; yes, we should
probably exchange Skype
handles off-list.
I am in Cambridge (London time), so that should work.
Cheers,
Magnus
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Jan Paul Posma <jp.posma(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Skype sounds great! Also, I heard you work with Ariel, which is great because that
way you have a more local person to contact with MediaWiki questions. Perhaps we can get
off-list with those interested to schedule an introductory meeting? (You, me, Magnus,
Ariel, others?) I am located in the Netherlands, so our hours will be similar.
>
> Cheers,
> Jan Paul
>
> On 19-Jan-2011, at 19:47, Panos Louridas wrote:
>
>> Thanks to both Jean Paul and Magnus for taking up the offer!
>>
>> Based on your input I will look into our developer tool for people with expertise
in the following:
>>
>> * Advanced JS, preferably with experience in optimisation issues etc.
>>
>> * UI design, usability testing, etc.
>>
>> * Text processing (of sorts) for the needs of SLE
>>
>> (if you believe I am missing something, say so)
>>
>> I expect to have the people in place in February, I will let you know. I will be
following the list.
>>
>> Jean Paul indicated that we might talk in more detail. I do not follow IRC
because of my tight schedule; I do use Skype, however (ID: louridas). Please Jean Paul,
Magnus, and others, let me know if that suits you. As I am located in Athens, my waking
hours are around East European Time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Panos.
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2011, at 3:54 PM, Jan Paul Posma wrote:
>>
>>> A very generous offer indeed!
>>>
>>> My own SLE and Magnus' WYSIFTW are indeed the most active projects, so
that would be a good bet. Actually, for me the timing is just right, as I'll be
working on a paper about this editor for a while, so it'd be cool to have someone(s)
continue the project. If one of your researchers has a brilliant idea on how to do this
right, that would obviously be really valuable too.
>>>
>>> A lot of things Magnus mentioned apply to my project too:
>>> * Improving detection algorithms, i.e. better sentence-level editing (perhaps
using an external language recognition library), better detection of other elements. Keep
in mind that the editor excludes anything it doesn't 'understand', so this is
a nice fallback, you don't have to write a complex parser that detects a lot of stuff
at once.
>>> * Cross-browser/platform/device compatibility (think mobile, touchscreens,
etc.)
>>> * Usability testing (the more the merrier!)
>>> * Verifying detection coverage (Which % of the wikitext is editable) and
quality (Wikitext -> Adding markers -> MediaWiki parser -> Removing markings
-> Wikitext??) Checking this on a large number of pages.
>>> * Test suites (again, the more the merrier, but only for parts of the code
and interface that are considered stable!)
>>> * Lots of implementation details: embedding the (current) editor toolbar in
the textboxes, making sure (a fair percentage of) gadgets still work with this, and
handling unusual cases like edit conflicts, etc.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it'd be good to have a (video or IRC?) conversation with you,
your developers, people from the Foundation, and people from the specific projects you
want to contribute to. Again, really awesome that you guys want to work on this! :-)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Jan Paul
>>>
>>> On 19-Jan-2011, at 9:55, Magnus Manske wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Panos Louridas <louridas(a)grnet.gr>
wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> At the Greek Research and Education Network (GRNET) we look at the
possibility of contributing to the development of WYSIWYG editor support in Wikipedia. We
understand that considerable work has already taken place in the area, e.g.:
>>>>>
>>>>> *
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WYSIFTW
>>>>> *
https://svn.wikia-code.com/wikia/trunk/extensions/wikia/RTE/
>>>>> *
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:JanPaul123/Sentence-level_editing
>>>>>
>>>>> We therefore think that it will not be productive to reinvent the
wheel over here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our contribution can take the form of providing developers that will
devote part (or all) of their time for some months in 2011. We welcome any comments and
suggestions on how we could push this forward, and in particular:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Specific tasks / components that need to be designed, developed,
optimized, etc., and estimates of effort and timeframe.
>>>>
>>>> Hi Panos,
>>>>
>>>> a very generous offer! One I would like to take you up on, for WYSIFTW
>>>> as you no doubt have guessed :-)
>>>>
>>>> WYSIFTW is approaching feature completeness, as far as wiki markup
>>>> parsing is concerned, and improves on usability as well. (just try the
>>>> new "floating context hover boxes", in lack of a better name,
that I
>>>> added last night, wich come up when you hover over a template or a
>>>> references, for show/hide and rendered preview, and the new optional
>>>> rendering for templates as a key-value-pair table)
>>>>
>>>> For support later this year, tasks would include
>>>> * increase parsing performance (mostly post-parsing steps, focusing on
>>>> DOM lookup and manipulation)
>>>> * improve editing usability (cut/copy/paste, better specialised
>>>> dialogs for images, table/row/cell properties etc.)
>>>> * usability testing (I'm using up volunteers fast ;-)
>>>> * creating a test suite (to make sure that changes don't
accidentally
>>>> break anything)
>>>> * general compatibility testing (find pages that parse/unparse
>>>> wrongly, and patch the code accordingly)
>>>>
>>>> I like the sentence-level editing function, but once I add
>>>> section-level editing to WYSIFTW, these two will start to converge.
>>>> I'm curious which of these will be more suited to small fixes and
>>>> adding single sentences/references etc.
>>>>
>>>> As for RTE, I know little about. Apparently, it is not suitable for
>>>> Wikipedia in its current form. From brief looks at CKeditor, it might
>>>> be quite some work to make it behave nicely around parsed wikitext, as
>>>> used on Wikipedia.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Magnus
>>>>
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