Maarten, thanks for that clarification! Gerard, I totally agree with you. Personally I was hoping for a way to use WikiData to find Commons images that was *not* through the gallery/category structures as we know them, for all the reasons Gerard has mentioned (in this and previous mails).
Now that I think about it, if you want to create a relationship where Wiki Commons is a client of WikiData, then I think this should be done for galleries only, not categories. Galleries can be easily split and/or merged, reside in more than one category, and offer a "best" selection of images of the subject, as well as offering a link to more images on Commons by clicking through to categories.
Jane
2013/8/13, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi,
As far as I am concerned, the categories used for images are not really helpful , While there are many images about Kiribati, you find only a few in the category by that name. The rest can be found in subcategories.
In the proposal for Commons there is a provision for tags. These tags can be populated to some extend by the categories they are in.
The reason to have categories is because they are intended to help find images. Without them and without tags we would not have Commons as a functioning entity. However, the way they work with all these subcategories and stuff prevent many people including myself to use Commons as the source of images when I need them.
So yes, having categories are good in a half arsed way but we should get rid of them as we can have something better.
One other big advantage of tags is that they are typically single concepts that have typically have translations either in the labels in Wikidata or in Wiktionary. This allows us to make Commons a truly multi-lingual resource. Thanks, GerardM
On 10 August 2013 06:19, Maarten Dammers maarten@mdammers.nl wrote:
Hi everyone,
At Wikimania we had several discussions about the future of Wikidata and Commons. Some broader feedback would be nice. Now we have a property "Commons category" (https://www.wikidata.org/** wiki/Property:P373 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P373). This is a string and an intermediate solution. In the long run Commons should probably be a wikibase instance in it's own right (structured metadata stored at Commons) integrated with Wikidata.org, see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/**Wikidata:Wikimedia_Commonshttps://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wikimedia_Commonsfor more info. In the meantime we should make Commons a wikidata client like Wikipedia and Wikivoyage. How would that work?
We have an item https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/**Q9920https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q9920for the city Haarlem. It links to the Wikipedia article "Haarlem" and the Wikivoyage article "Haarlem". It should link to the Commons gallery "Haarlem" (https://commons.wikimedia.**org/wiki/Haarlemhttps://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Haarlem )
We have an item https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/**Q7427769https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7427769for the category Haarlem. It links to the Wikipedia category "Haarlem". It should link to the Commons category "Haarlem" (https://commons.wikimedia.* *org/wiki/Category:Haarlemhttps://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Haarlem ).
The category item (Q7427769) links to article item (Q9920) using the property "main category topic" (https://www.wikidata.org/** wiki/Property:P301 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P301). We would need to make an inverse property of P301 to make the backlink.
Some reasons why this is helpful:
- Wikidata takes care of a lot of things like page moves, deletions, etc.
Now with P373 (Commons category) it's all manual
- Having Wikidata on Commons means that you can automatically get
backlinks to Wikipedia, have intro's for category, etc etc
- It's a step in the right direction. It makes it easier to do next steps
Small change, lot's of benefits!
Maarten
______________________________**_________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikidata-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l