Hi,
The Romanian Wikipedia has a code repository used mainly for robots of interest to the local community. So far, it has been hosted on Google Code. Since that site is closing, we are considering replacements and one of the possibilities was the Wikimedia git server.
We would like to know what are the steps to follow in order to have a project created?
Thanks, Strainu
Why not github, or bitbucket?
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 9:05 AM Strainu strainu10@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
The Romanian Wikipedia has a code repository used mainly for robots of interest to the local community. So far, it has been hosted on Google Code. Since that site is closing, we are considering replacements and one of the possibilities was the Wikimedia git server.
We would like to know what are the steps to follow in order to have a project created?
Thanks, Strainu
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Mar 13, 2015 6:05 AM, "Strainu" strainu10@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
The Romanian Wikipedia has a code repository used mainly for robots of interest to the local community. So far, it has been hosted on Google Code. Since that site is closing, we are considering replacements and one of the possibilities was the Wikimedia git server.
We would like to know what are the steps to follow in order to have a project created?
Thanks, Strainu
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
Basically you just have to ask.
I think its a nice thing to keep wiki related code, including bots in our git repos as that makes it easier for others to find.
--bawolff
2015-03-13 13:53 GMT+02:00 Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com:
Why not github, or bitbucket?
They're on the list as well, we're exploring all our options. Any special reason why you'd prefer those over Wikimedia?
2015-03-13 13:54 GMT+02:00 Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com:
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
Basically you just have to ask.
I think its a nice thing to keep wiki related code, including bots in our git repos as that makes it easier for others to find.
I am personally a bit worried about the complexity of the process on gerrit, but I hope that as long as we don't require formal code review it should be as simple as git pull/git push, right?
Another related question would be: how hard is it to maintain a github mirror of a WMF repository?
Thanks, Strainu
WMF git repos are already (automatically) mirrored to github :) See, e.g. https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-MobileFrontend as a mirror of https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/projects/mediawiki/extensions/MobileF... (also available on git.wikimedia.org https://git.wikimedia.org/summary/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FMobileFrontend )
Best, Florian
Freundliche Grüße Florian Schmidt -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on the Wikimedia git server? Datum: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:16:06 +0100 Von: Strainu strainu10@gmail.com An: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
2015-03-13 13:53 GMT+02:00 Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com:
Why not github, or bitbucket?
They're on the list as well, we're exploring all our options. Any special reason why you'd prefer those over Wikimedia?
2015-03-13 13:54 GMT+02:00 Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com:
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
Basically you just have to ask.
I think its a nice thing to keep wiki related code, including bots in our git repos as that makes it easier for others to find.
I am personally a bit worried about the complexity of the process on gerrit, but I hope that as long as we don't require formal code review it should be as simple as git pull/git push, right?
Another related question would be: how hard is it to maintain a github mirror of a WMF repository?
Thanks, Strainu
_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
... or you can consider skipping Gerrit altogether and waiting until the Wikimedia Hackathon in Lyon, where we will attempt to enable code review in Phabricator (aka Differential) for projects not requiring Jenkins / continuous integration. Bots and Labs tools are ideal candidates for this first wave.
Work-in-progress, contributors & testers welcome: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T560#1095147
Setting expectations right: maybe we don't have all the pieces in place at the end of the hackathon in Lyon, but we definitely should have everything you need in Phabricator well before Google Code kicks you out.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:27 PM, florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de < florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de> wrote:
WMF git repos are already (automatically) mirrored to github :) See, e.g. https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-MobileFrontend as a mirror of https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/projects/mediawiki/extensions/MobileF... (also available on git.wikimedia.org https://git.wikimedia.org/summary/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FMobileFrontend )
Best, Florian
Freundliche Grüße Florian Schmidt -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on the Wikimedia git server? Datum: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:16:06 +0100 Von: Strainu strainu10@gmail.com An: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
2015-03-13 13:53 GMT+02:00 Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com:
Why not github, or bitbucket?
They're on the list as well, we're exploring all our options. Any special reason why you'd prefer those over Wikimedia?
2015-03-13 13:54 GMT+02:00 Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com:
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
Basically you just have to ask.
I think its a nice thing to keep wiki related code, including bots in our git repos as that makes it easier for others to find.
I am personally a bit worried about the complexity of the process on gerrit, but I hope that as long as we don't require formal code review it should be as simple as git pull/git push, right?
Another related question would be: how hard is it to maintain a github mirror of a WMF repository?
Thanks, Strainu
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
2015-03-13 14:27 GMT+02:00 florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de:
WMF git repos are already (automatically) mirrored to github :) See, e.g. https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-MobileFrontend as a mirror of https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/projects/mediawiki/extensions/MobileF... (also available on git.wikimedia.org https://git.wikimedia.org/summary/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FMobileFrontend )
I knew about those, but I always assumed these are downstream-only (e.g. only pull from Gerrit, but no push). If we could accept pull-requests from github and have them pushed to Gerrit we would basically have the best of both worlds. :)
Strainu
Best, Florian
Freundliche Grüße Florian Schmidt -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on the Wikimedia git server? Datum: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:16:06 +0100 Von: Strainu strainu10@gmail.com An: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
2015-03-13 13:53 GMT+02:00 Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com:
Why not github, or bitbucket?
They're on the list as well, we're exploring all our options. Any special reason why you'd prefer those over Wikimedia?
2015-03-13 13:54 GMT+02:00 Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com:
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
Basically you just have to ask.
I think its a nice thing to keep wiki related code, including bots in our git repos as that makes it easier for others to find.
I am personally a bit worried about the complexity of the process on gerrit, but I hope that as long as we don't require formal code review it should be as simple as git pull/git push, right?
Another related question would be: how hard is it to maintain a github mirror of a WMF repository?
Thanks, Strainu
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Iirc, but i'm not sure, actually it's not possible to merge pull requests from github :/
Florian
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Strainu [mailto:strainu10@gmail.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 13. März 2015 19:48 An: florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de; Wikimedia developers Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on the Wikimedia git server?
2015-03-13 14:27 GMT+02:00 florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de:
WMF git repos are already (automatically) mirrored to github :) See, e.g. https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-MobileFrontend as a mirror of https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/projects/mediawiki/extensions/M obileFrontend (also available on git.wikimedia.org https://git.wikimedia.org/summary/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FMobileFront end )
I knew about those, but I always assumed these are downstream-only (e.g. only pull from Gerrit, but no push). If we could accept pull-requests from github and have them pushed to Gerrit we would basically have the best of both worlds. :)
Strainu
Best, Florian
Freundliche Grüße Florian Schmidt -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on the Wikimedia git server? Datum: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:16:06 +0100 Von: Strainu strainu10@gmail.com An: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
2015-03-13 13:53 GMT+02:00 Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com:
Why not github, or bitbucket?
They're on the list as well, we're exploring all our options. Any special reason why you'd prefer those over Wikimedia?
2015-03-13 13:54 GMT+02:00 Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com:
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
Basically you just have to ask.
I think its a nice thing to keep wiki related code, including bots in our git repos as that makes it easier for others to find.
I am personally a bit worried about the complexity of the process on gerrit, but I hope that as long as we don't require formal code review it should be as simple as git pull/git push, right?
Another related question would be: how hard is it to maintain a github mirror of a WMF repository?
Thanks, Strainu
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
The "merge" button on the github interface won't work for a mirrored repository, but it is pretty easy to cherry-pick the commit to a clone that is connected to gerrit and push from there. Something like this (not tested but I think it's right):
git clone ssh://$USER@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/some/repo git remote add github https://github.com/wikimedia/some-repo.git git fetch github pull/7324/head:name-of-local-branch git checkout master git merge name-of-local-branch git push origin
Instead of pushing to master you could also upload the patch to gerrit via git-review just like you'd created the patch locally in the first place.
Brya
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Florian Schmidt florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de wrote:
Iirc, but i'm not sure, actually it's not possible to merge pull requests from github :/
Florian
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Strainu [mailto:strainu10@gmail.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 13. März 2015 19:48 An: florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de; Wikimedia developers Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on the Wikimedia git server?
2015-03-13 14:27 GMT+02:00 florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de:
WMF git repos are already (automatically) mirrored to github :) See, e.g. https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-MobileFrontend as a mirror of https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/projects/mediawiki/extensions/M obileFrontend (also available on git.wikimedia.org https://git.wikimedia.org/summary/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FMobileFront end )
I knew about those, but I always assumed these are downstream-only (e.g. only pull from Gerrit, but no push). If we could accept pull-requests from github and have them pushed to Gerrit we would basically have the best of both worlds. :)
Strainu
Best, Florian
Freundliche Grüße Florian Schmidt -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on the Wikimedia git server? Datum: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:16:06 +0100 Von: Strainu strainu10@gmail.com An: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
2015-03-13 13:53 GMT+02:00 Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com:
Why not github, or bitbucket?
They're on the list as well, we're exploring all our options. Any special reason why you'd prefer those over Wikimedia?
2015-03-13 13:54 GMT+02:00 Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com:
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
Basically you just have to ask.
I think its a nice thing to keep wiki related code, including bots in our git repos as that makes it easier for others to find.
I am personally a bit worried about the complexity of the process on gerrit, but I hope that as long as we don't require formal code review it should be as simple as git pull/git push, right?
Another related question would be: how hard is it to maintain a github mirror of a WMF repository?
Thanks, Strainu
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Yuvi used to have a bot i thought...
--bawolff On Mar 13, 2015 4:10 PM, "Florian Schmidt" < florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de> wrote:
Iirc, but i'm not sure, actually it's not possible to merge pull requests
from github :/
Florian
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Strainu [mailto:strainu10@gmail.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 13. März 2015 19:48 An: florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de; Wikimedia developers Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on
the Wikimedia git server?
2015-03-13 14:27 GMT+02:00 florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de:
WMF git repos are already (automatically) mirrored to github :) See, e.g. https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-MobileFrontend as a mirror of https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/projects/mediawiki/extensions/M obileFrontend (also available on git.wikimedia.org https://git.wikimedia.org/summary/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FMobileFront end )
I knew about those, but I always assumed these are downstream-only (e.g.
only pull from Gerrit, but no push). If we could accept pull-requests from github and have them pushed to Gerrit we would basically have the best of both worlds. :)
Strainu
Best, Florian
Freundliche Grüße Florian Schmidt -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on
the Wikimedia git server?
Datum: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:16:06 +0100 Von: Strainu strainu10@gmail.com An: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
2015-03-13 13:53 GMT+02:00 Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com:
Why not github, or bitbucket?
They're on the list as well, we're exploring all our options. Any special reason why you'd prefer those over Wikimedia?
2015-03-13 13:54 GMT+02:00 Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com:
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
Basically you just have to ask.
I think its a nice thing to keep wiki related code, including bots in our git repos as that makes it easier for others to find.
I am personally a bit worried about the complexity of the process on gerrit, but I hope that as long as we don't require formal code review it should be as simple as git pull/git push, right?
Another related question would be: how hard is it to maintain a github mirror of a WMF repository?
Thanks, Strainu
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com wrote:
Yuvi used to have a bot i thought...
No idea about the current status, but some links can be found at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit#See_also
I was researching this the past week for the iOS team. I found this for replicating pull requests as patch sets on gerrit:
https://gerrit.googlesource.com/plugins/github/
I am going to see if its possible we can get this plugin installed on our gerrit - may help out with this.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com wrote:
Yuvi used to have a bot i thought...
--bawolff On Mar 13, 2015 4:10 PM, "Florian Schmidt" < florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de> wrote:
Iirc, but i'm not sure, actually it's not possible to merge pull requests
from github :/
Florian
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Strainu [mailto:strainu10@gmail.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 13. März 2015 19:48 An: florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de; Wikimedia developers Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on
the Wikimedia git server?
2015-03-13 14:27 GMT+02:00 florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de:
WMF git repos are already (automatically) mirrored to github :) See, e.g. https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-MobileFrontend as a mirror of https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/projects/mediawiki/extensions/M obileFrontend (also available on git.wikimedia.org https://git.wikimedia.org/summary/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FMobileFront end )
I knew about those, but I always assumed these are downstream-only (e.g.
only pull from Gerrit, but no push). If we could accept pull-requests from github and have them pushed to Gerrit we would basically have the best of both worlds. :)
Strainu
Best, Florian
Freundliche Grüße Florian Schmidt -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on
the Wikimedia git server?
Datum: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:16:06 +0100 Von: Strainu strainu10@gmail.com An: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
2015-03-13 13:53 GMT+02:00 Magnus Manske <magnusmanske@googlemail.com
:
Why not github, or bitbucket?
They're on the list as well, we're exploring all our options. Any special reason why you'd prefer those over Wikimedia?
2015-03-13 13:54 GMT+02:00 Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com:
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
Basically you just have to ask.
I think its a nice thing to keep wiki related code, including bots in our git repos as that makes it easier for others to find.
I am personally a bit worried about the complexity of the process on gerrit, but I hope that as long as we don't require formal code review it should be as simple as git pull/git push, right?
Another related question would be: how hard is it to maintain a github mirror of a WMF repository?
Thanks, Strainu
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Bryan,
I think that would work, except the last step, which probably should be
push origin refs/for/master
unless granted special permission to be able to push directly to master (not a regular user). I know some bots have it.
Bernd
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Corey Floyd cfloyd@wikimedia.org wrote:
I was researching this the past week for the iOS team. I found this for replicating pull requests as patch sets on gerrit:
https://gerrit.googlesource.com/plugins/github/
I am going to see if its possible we can get this plugin installed on our gerrit - may help out with this.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com wrote:
Yuvi used to have a bot i thought...
--bawolff On Mar 13, 2015 4:10 PM, "Florian Schmidt" < florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de> wrote:
Iirc, but i'm not sure, actually it's not possible to merge pull
requests
from github :/
Florian
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Strainu [mailto:strainu10@gmail.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 13. März 2015 19:48 An: florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de; Wikimedia developers Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted on
the Wikimedia git server?
2015-03-13 14:27 GMT+02:00 florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de:
WMF git repos are already (automatically) mirrored to github :) See, e.g.
https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-MobileFrontend
as a mirror of
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/projects/mediawiki/extensions/M
obileFrontend (also available on git.wikimedia.org
https://git.wikimedia.org/summary/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FMobileFront
end )
I knew about those, but I always assumed these are downstream-only
(e.g.
only pull from Gerrit, but no push). If we could accept pull-requests
from
github and have them pushed to Gerrit we would basically have the best of both worlds. :)
Strainu
Best, Florian
Freundliche Grüße Florian Schmidt -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] What does it take to have a project hosted
on
the Wikimedia git server?
Datum: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:16:06 +0100 Von: Strainu strainu10@gmail.com An: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
2015-03-13 13:53 GMT+02:00 Magnus Manske <
magnusmanske@googlemail.com
:
Why not github, or bitbucket?
They're on the list as well, we're exploring all our options. Any special reason why you'd prefer those over Wikimedia?
2015-03-13 13:54 GMT+02:00 Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com:
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
Basically you just have to ask.
I think its a nice thing to keep wiki related code, including bots
in
our git repos as that makes it easier for others to find.
I am personally a bit worried about the complexity of the process on gerrit, but I hope that as long as we don't require formal code
review
it should be as simple as git pull/git push, right?
Another related question would be: how hard is it to maintain a
github
mirror of a WMF repository?
Thanks, Strainu
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Corey Floyd Software Engineer Mobile Apps / iOS Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
I am personally a bit worried about the complexity of the process on gerrit, but I hope that as long as we don't require formal code review it should be as simple as git pull/git push, right?
The code review bit is optional, when asking for your repo you can ask for a "straight push model".
Or you can do the code review thing, but then decide that everyone is allowed to review their own patch and essentially ignore that aspect.
Gerrit may be a usability trainwreck, but its not that bad once you get used to it.
--bawolff
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org