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As you may or may not be aware, Microsoft released a developer beta of Internet Explorer 8 a few days ago. I figured I'd go ahead and take a poke at it...
I've set up a tracking bug for IE 8 issues in our Bugzilla, and threw in a few problems I noticed immediately:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=13361&hide_reso...
13362: Misaligned form fields 13363: Overprinting of checkbox text 13364: Fieldset legend is placed incorrectly 13365: Some check box labels are missing first character 13366: Cologne Blue styles fail 13367: Standard, Nostalgia skins show border on the site logo 13368: Monobook bullets are black instead of cyan 13369: Monobook user links icon broken
Some of these are probably going to be things we can correct in our styles or code, but some look like basic problems in the renderer, which will need to be reported to Microsoft for them to fix.
If I'm reading the runes correctly, we currently don't load any special workaround CSS or JS code for IE 8, at least under the Monobook skin. Hopefully we can keep it that way. :)
- -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
On 14/03/2008, Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org wrote:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=13361&hide_reso... Some of these are probably going to be things we can correct in our styles or code, but some look like basic problems in the renderer, which will need to be reported to Microsoft for them to fix.
We're a top 10 site - you should be able to get them to listen readily enough!
- d.
David Gerard wrote:
you should be able to get them to listen readily enough!
I doubt that highly, especially given past reputation -- however maybe they might be making a turn for the better (considering the standards compliance efforts going into IE8). Let's hope for the best.
MinuteElectron.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 4:14 PM, MinuteElectron minuteelectron@googlemail.com wrote:
David Gerard wrote:
you should be able to get them to listen readily enough!
I doubt that highly, especially given past reputation -- however maybe they might be making a turn for the better (considering the standards compliance efforts going into IE8). Let's hope for the best.
Of course they're likely to listen (although "likely" isn't "certain"). They don't want people to complain that top-ten websites they use every day are broken in IE8 when they worked fine in IE7. Opera has previously contacted us about rendering problems they had that were our fault (which we fixed), although Opera is probably much more aggressive about that kind of thing.
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Simetrical wrote:
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 4:14 PM, MinuteElectron minuteelectron@googlemail.com wrote:
David Gerard wrote:
you should be able to get them to listen readily enough!
I doubt that highly, especially given past reputation -- however maybe they might be making a turn for the better (considering the standards compliance efforts going into IE8). Let's hope for the best.
Of course they're likely to listen (although "likely" isn't "certain"). They don't want people to complain that top-ten websites they use every day are broken in IE8 when they worked fine in IE7.
Microsoft's "Internet Explorer Site Outreach" team actually dropped me a generic form e-mail asking us to check our site in IE8. :)
Apparently to actually report problems you have to download and install some sort of plug-in... o_O and/or wade through their newsgroups.
What, no Bugzilla? :)
IE8 release notes: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949787
The problem report link: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=110518
- -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 02:26:02PM -0700, Brion Vibber wrote:
What, no Bugzilla? :)
No, and eBay doesn't have a phone number, either. ;-)
Cheers, -- jra
Too bad their version targeting thing didn't stay in, then people could ignore ie forever. :)
http://www.zeldman.com/2008/03/04/microsoft-reverses-version-targeting-defau...
For example, unless you targeted ie=8 they were going to render everything like 7, forever.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
Too bad their version targeting thing didn't stay in, then people could ignore ie forever. :)
You *want* IE to render in non-standards-compatible mode by default? Of course, we could still try solving this by telling it to act like IE7 . . . :P I wouldn't recommend it.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Simetrical Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
Too bad their version targeting thing didn't stay in, then people could ignore ie forever. :)
You *want* IE to render in non-standards-compatible mode by default? Of course, we could still try solving this by telling it to act like IE7 . . . :P I wouldn't recommend it.
You assume they will achieve standards compliance :) My scenario is that they only pretend to achieve compliance, but no one cares b/c they don't have to bother anymore, if it worked on 7 that is. It's a weird solution for sure, but hey... Ideally they could become actually compliant, but I'm a pessimist. :)
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
You assume they will achieve standards compliance :) My scenario is that they only pretend to achieve compliance, but no one cares b/c they don't have to bother anymore, if it worked on 7 that is. It's a weird solution for sure, but hey... Ideally they could become actually compliant, but I'm a pessimist. :)
You can't be *that* non-compliant if you pass Acid 2. You can still be pretty buggy, though, it's true. I guess we'll see. This is only a beta, to be fair, so a large part of how good IE8 is will depend on how much time they devote to bug-fixing. I'm guardedly optimistic.
Oh, man... and I still haven't tracked down the IE7 css bug for the TableEdit extension. :( Thank goodness it's not used in any WMF sites! ;)
Jim On Mar 14, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Brion Vibber wrote:
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As you may or may not be aware, Microsoft released a developer beta of Internet Explorer 8 a few days ago. I figured I'd go ahead and take a poke at it...
I've set up a tracking bug for IE 8 issues in our Bugzilla, and threw in a few problems I noticed immediately:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=13361&hide_reso...
13362: Misaligned form fields 13363: Overprinting of checkbox text 13364: Fieldset legend is placed incorrectly 13365: Some check box labels are missing first character 13366: Cologne Blue styles fail 13367: Standard, Nostalgia skins show border on the site logo 13368: Monobook bullets are black instead of cyan 13369: Monobook user links icon broken
Some of these are probably going to be things we can correct in our styles or code, but some look like basic problems in the renderer, which will need to be reported to Microsoft for them to fix.
If I'm reading the runes correctly, we currently don't load any special workaround CSS or JS code for IE 8, at least under the Monobook skin. Hopefully we can keep it that way. :)
- -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
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===================================== Jim Hu Associate Professor Dept. of Biochemistry and Biophysics 2128 TAMU Texas A&M Univ. College Station, TX 77843-2128 979-862-4054
On 14/03/2008, Jim Hu jimhu@tamu.edu wrote:
Oh, man... and I still haven't tracked down the IE7 css bug for the TableEdit extension. :( Thank goodness it's not used in any WMF sites! ;)
We recently changed network and PC providers. They wanted a new list of bog-standard apps.
We ensured Firefox on the desktop by having a pile of in-house apps written to standards, i.e. they don't work in IE6. One thing used every day by twenty people was broken in IE for six months and no-one noticed. We're going to make sure we use a similar approach when they threaten us with Vista.
- d.
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