Because it is difficult to explain please read this;
-------- Oorspronkelijke bericht -------- From: admin AT gmane.org (Gmane Administrator) To: wikinl-l-admin AT wikipedia.org Subject: wikinl-l added to Gmane Organization: GNU Mail To News -- http://gmane.org/ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:19:35 +0100
We have received a request for adding the wikinl-l AT wikipedia.org mailing list to the Gmane mail-to-news gateway/archive. A subscription request message has been sent. If this is contrary to your wishes, please send a mail to admin AT gmane.org saying so, and the list will be removed from Gmane.
Gmane is a mail-to-news portal that never expires its messages. It therefore also functions as a mailing list archive. It's a bi-directional gateway, but Gmane verifies that its users' email addresses are valid before passing the messages through the news-to-mail gateway. (Groups can also be made "read-only", which means that Gmane won't forward any messages at all to the mailing list.)
Gmane can encrypt addresses to make address harvesting difficult, and heeds X-No-Archive and related headers.
If you wish to import older archives into Gmane, send a message to the Gmane administrators -- just reply to this message.
The following parameters are set for this mailing list:
* Newsgroup name: gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.nederlands * Mailing list address: wikinl-l AT wikipedia.org * The gateway is bi-directional * Address encryption is on * Spam detection is on * The list is described as: "The mailing list of the Dutch language Wikipedia, a collaborative project to produce a free and complete encyclopedia in every language." * News URL: news://news.gmane.org/gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.nederlands * Web URL: http://news.gmane.org/thread.php?group=gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.n...
This newsgroup will be created when the first message from the mailing list arrives.
For more information about the Gmane project, go to <URL: http://gmane.org/%3E.
This request was handled by Tom Koelman <tkoelman AT xs4all.nl>. ____________________________________________
I have done some testing and it seems to work very well. What do you think about to add all wikipedia lists to Gmane.org? So you can read the lists like the where newsgroups.
It does not change anything to the mailings lists, the Usenet interface is a extra way of using the lists, that is all. Nobody can send a message to the list if the are not subscribed.
Because there is email verfication spam will not cause the list administrator to receive a message about "As list administrator, your authorization is requested" like i now receive a lot every day.
By the way, is there not possibility to blacklist some addresses to be send directly to dev/null? I receive a lot of spam from the same email adress to the lists. I always report it to spamcop but i keeps coming. It gives a lot of work.
And the auto replay to the sender to inform the spammer that his message is hold for approval gives a lot a bounce and then i receive a message to inform my that the email adress of the spammer is invalid. (=again;"As list administrator, your authorization is requested")
Giskart
I would recommend that they set us up read-only.
Giskart wrote:
Because it is difficult to explain please read this;
-------- Oorspronkelijke bericht -------- From: admin AT gmane.org (Gmane Administrator) To: wikinl-l-admin AT wikipedia.org Subject: wikinl-l added to Gmane Organization: GNU Mail To News -- http://gmane.org/ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:19:35 +0100
We have received a request for adding the wikinl-l AT wikipedia.org mailing list to the Gmane mail-to-news gateway/archive. A subscription request message has been sent. If this is contrary to your wishes, please send a mail to admin AT gmane.org saying so, and the list will be removed from Gmane.
Gmane is a mail-to-news portal that never expires its messages. It therefore also functions as a mailing list archive. It's a bi-directional gateway, but Gmane verifies that its users' email addresses are valid before passing the messages through the news-to-mail gateway. (Groups can also be made "read-only", which means that Gmane won't forward any messages at all to the mailing list.)
Gmane can encrypt addresses to make address harvesting difficult, and heeds X-No-Archive and related headers.
If you wish to import older archives into Gmane, send a message to the Gmane administrators -- just reply to this message.
The following parameters are set for this mailing list:
* Newsgroup name: gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.nederlands * Mailing list address: wikinl-l AT wikipedia.org * The gateway is bi-directional * Address encryption is on * Spam detection is on * The list is described as: "The mailing list of the Dutch language Wikipedia, acollaborative project to produce a free and complete encyclopedia in every language." * News URL: news://news.gmane.org/gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.nederlands * Web URL: http://news.gmane.org/thread.php?group=gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.n...
This newsgroup will be created when the first message from the mailing list arrives.
For more information about the Gmane project, go to <URL: http://gmane.org/%3E.
This request was handled by Tom Koelman <tkoelman AT xs4all.nl>. ____________________________________________
I have done some testing and it seems to work very well. What do you think about to add all wikipedia lists to Gmane.org? So you can read the lists like the where newsgroups.
It does not change anything to the mailings lists, the Usenet interface is a extra way of using the lists, that is all. Nobody can send a message to the list if the are not subscribed.
Because there is email verfication spam will not cause the list administrator to receive a message about "As list administrator, your authorization is requested" like i now receive a lot every day.
By the way, is there not possibility to blacklist some addresses to be send directly to dev/null? I receive a lot of spam from the same email adress to the lists. I always report it to spamcop but i keeps coming. It gives a lot of work.
And the auto replay to the sender to inform the spammer that his message is hold for approval gives a lot a bounce and then i receive a message to inform my that the email adress of the spammer is invalid. (=again;"As list administrator, your authorization is requested")
Giskart
-- Info: http://wikitech.wikipedia.be
Jimmy Wales wrote:
I would recommend that they set us up read-only.
Gmane is a mail-to-news portal that never expires its messages.
I have found that Gmane.org has already archived several messages that I have sent to various mailing lists, and I'm having a hard time to make the owner (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen) understand that this is in violation of copyright law and that he does not have my permission. Since I don't sign any contract or attach a license when I post a message to a mailing list, I retain the full copyright with the only implied license to distribute the message to the current members and for archiving in the list's own archive.
Gmane can encrypt addresses to make address harvesting difficult, and heeds X-No-Archive and related headers.
If I set the X-No-Archive header in my posts to the Wikipedia lists, will Wikipedia (Bomis) allow that header to pass through, so to avoid archiving of my posts at Gmane and similar sites?
Well, uh, we can just say "no" to them, then.
Personally, I assume that anything I write to any mailing list is likely to be archived permanently in places that are out of my control. So long as my mailings are not dishonestly altered, I don't care. Why should I care?
I have no idea if our software respects or passes along no-archiving headers. We're using standard open source software, so if there's a standard for this, it probably works just fine.
--Jimbo
I have tested news.gmane.org and it's an excellent idea. I for one think we should make use of this resource. It's great to be able to read mailing list archives in threaded form without a) subscribing, b) downloading large archive tarballs.
Copyright objections seem silly, I see no difference between a read-only gmane archive and a mailing list archive mirror. Basically, if the Wikipedia list maintainers think that a mirror is a valuable resource, then the implied contract extends to said mirror.
Regards,
Erik
Erik Moeller wrote:
gmane archive and a mailing list archive mirror. Basically, if the Wikipedia list maintainers think that a mirror is a valuable resource, then the implied contract extends to said mirror.
Yes of course, as long as I'm aware of this when I post to the list. The problem is that Gmane archives many lists, where I think the list owner and most members don't know about it.
On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 15:42, Lars Aronsson wrote:
Yes of course, as long as I'm aware of this when I post to the list. The problem is that Gmane archives many lists, where I think the list owner and most members don't know about it.
Given the craziness of a concept like copyright in the modern information age, the only reasonable approach is often to ignore it until problems arise. If specific list owners have problems with gmane, they will certainly complain.
Regards,
Erik
We can also add a line in the subscription verification mail that states that the posts are archived by gmane... And perhaps send a message to the list when archiving starts...
Jason
Erik Moeller wrote:
On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 15:42, Lars Aronsson wrote:
Yes of course, as long as I'm aware of this when I post to the list. The problem is that Gmane archives many lists, where I think the list owner and most members don't know about it.
Given the craziness of a concept like copyright in the modern information age, the only reasonable approach is often to ignore it until problems arise. If specific list owners have problems with gmane, they will certainly complain.
Regards,
Erik
FOKUS - Fraunhofer Insitute for Open Communication Systems Project BerliOS - http://www.berlios.de
About this list: http://wikitech.wikipedia.be
Lars Aronsson heeft geschreven:
Yes of course, as long as I'm aware of this when I post to the list. The problem is that Gmane archives many lists, where I think the list owner and most members don't know about it.
Everbody can enter a request to add a mailinglist to Gmane. But Gmane sends a message to the list administrator to inform the admin about this. Also to make the conection to gmane a new special gmane list member must be subcribed. It is the responibility of the list administrator to read his email and inform his users, not of Gmane.
I have done that for WikiNL-l.
Giskart
Erik Moeller wrote:
I have tested news.gmane.org and it's an excellent idea. I for one think we should make use of this resource. It's great to be able to read mailing list archives in threaded form without a) subscribing, b) downloading large archive tarballs.
How are their archives an improvement over ours?
Copyright objections seem silly, I see no difference between a read-only gmane archive and a mailing list archive mirror. Basically, if the Wikipedia list maintainers think that a mirror is a valuable resource, then the implied contract extends to said mirror.
I tend to agree, but don't see enough value added to really upset people, if people will be really upset.
--Jimbo
"Jimmy Wales" skribis:
Erik Moeller wrote:
I have tested news.gmane.org and it's an excellent idea. I for one think we should make use of this resource. It's great to be able to read mailing list archives in threaded form without a) subscribing, b) downloading large archive tarballs.
How are their archives an improvement over ours?
It is a NNTP-Interface, not HTTP.
You can get them with a newsreader, not with a browser.
(There is also a Web-interface, IIRC).
Paul
Jimmy Wales heeft geschreven:
I would recommend that they set us up read-only.
That seems logical, but it is not.
I explain;
Whit a gmane.org read-only usenet group;
If you send a posting to the group, reply to newsgroup you get a auto-reply that the list is read-only. Logical.
If you send a message to "reply to poster" or you fill in the posting email adress of the list the message goes to the list and the newsgroup but Gmane.org has nothing to do whit it. It is only a email that you send to the list.
The list administrator has full control about it.
If it is a non read-only Gmane.org usenet group (like "gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.nederlands" = WikiNL-l );
If you send a posting to the group, reply to news group, you are sending a email to Gmane.org and the are forwarding it to the posting email adress of the list. That is all. (the "from" is the poster, not gmane)
The list administrator has still full control about it.
I have asked especialy to a admin of Gmane about this to be sure. If sombody wants to send some test posting you can use WikiNL-l.
I have disabled the sending of emails to the current list users of wikiNL-l except for; Jason, Andere Engels, Giskart and new subcribers from now until 2002-12-10 , 15:00 UTC.
About the archive;
Yes, Gmane creates a public archive. But the current list archives are already public.
In general, remember; this Gmane/usenet thing does not changes anything to the lists, it gives only a additional user interfase.
Giskart
Is there objection if I enter a request to add Intlwiki-l and Wikitech-l to Gmane?
gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.technical gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.international
Giskart
"Giskart" skribis:
Is there objection if I enter a request to add Intlwiki-l and Wikitech-l to Gmane?
gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.technical gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.international
I have no objection - but please add a description line (which ideally would contain an URL).
gmane.sciencs.linguistics.wikipedia.nederlands now doesn't have such a description line.
Paul
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org