Hi
Is somebody against the idea of sorting interwiki links in the alphanumerical order (by language: en always before fr) ? It will be easier to find a corresponding article in a specific language thus.
Cordialy
Emmanuel Engelhart
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On Monday July 19 2004 03:55, Emmanuel Engelhart wrote:
Hi
Is somebody against the idea of sorting interwiki links in the alphanumerical order (by language: en always before fr) ? It will be easier to find a corresponding article in a specific language thus.
Cordialy
Emmanuel Engelhart
I think this is a good idea and would make the "interface" more consistent, which is good. So I guess that's my vote. - -- Mike / http://mikecapone.blogspot.com
Emmanuel Engelhart wrote:
Is somebody against the idea of sorting interwiki links in the alphanumerical order (by language: en always before fr) ? It will be easier to find a corresponding article in a specific language thus.
On the English Wikipedia we've already been doing it that way (sorting by the language code), but on the Hungarian Wikipedia (for example) they seem to think that English should always come first.
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:18:16 +0100 Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Emmanuel Engelhart wrote:
Is somebody against the idea of sorting interwiki links in the alphanumerical order (by language: en always before fr) ? It will be easier to find a corresponding article in a specific language thus.
On the English Wikipedia we've already been doing it that way (sorting by the language code), but on the Hungarian Wikipedia (for example) they seem to think that English should always come first.
Also, there is no agreement of what alphabetical order to choose. In the Pywikipediabot, it is now specified to use alphabetical order by language name for en:, fr:, pl: and simple:, and alphabetical order by code for the other languages (where hu: puts en: first). Given that en: and de: here are different, any choice will surely get some big opposition I think...
Andre Engels
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:25:38 +0100 Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Andre Engels wrote:
In the Pywikipediabot, it is now specified to use alphabetical order by language name
How do you alphabetically sort 中文, 日本語, etc.?
Using the most common transliteration into the Latin alphabet. However, I know that on nl: exactly this problem was the reason to use alphabetic by code instead. The same might hold for de:, I don't know about them.
For your information, Pywikipediabot currently defines the order 'alphabetic by name' to be:
'af','ar','roa-rup','om','bg','be','bn','bs', 'ca','chr','co','cs','cy','da','de','als','et', 'el','en','es','eo','eu','fa','fr','fy','ga','gv', 'gd','gl','ko','hi','hr','io','id','ia','is','it', 'he','jv','ka','csb','ks','sw','la','lv','lt','hu', 'mk','mg','ml','mi','mr','ms','zh-cfr','mn','nah','na', 'nl','ja','no','nb','oc','nds','pl','pt','ro','ru', 'sa','st','sq','si','simple','sk','sl','sr','su', 'fi','sv','ta','tt','th','tlh','ur','vi','tokipona', 'tpi','tr','uk','vo','yi','yo','za','zh','zh-cn', 'zh-tw'
Andre Engels
Andre Engels wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:25:38 +0100 Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Andre Engels wrote:
In the Pywikipediabot, it is now specified to use alphabetical order by language name
How do you alphabetically sort 中文, 日本語, etc.?
Using the most common transliteration into the Latin alphabet. However, I know that on nl: exactly this problem was the reason to use alphabetic by code instead. The same might hold for de:, I don't know about them.
To be more correct it should be "romanization" instead of "transliteration". It has to do with how a set of non-alphabetical symbols in a language are represented with the Latin alphabet. Pinyin representation may be close to the pronunciation of Chinese in some European languages, but that is not an essential element of romanization. It should be valid for use in contexts of all languages. That would make everyone's life much simpler. The difficulty may be in attempting to determine what is "most common". At one times the Wade-Giles system prevailed for the romanization into English, but that has rapidly become obsolete. I imagine that there is a similar situation for other languages. Japanese romanji may be in a similar situation.
Ec
Selon Andre Engels andrewiki@freemail.nl:
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:18:16 +0100 Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Emmanuel Engelhart wrote:
Is somebody against the idea of sorting interwiki links in the alphanumerical order (by language: en always before fr) ? It will be easier to find a corresponding article in a specific language thus.
On the English Wikipedia we've already been doing it that way (sorting by the language code), but on the Hungarian Wikipedia (for example) they seem to think that English should always come first.
Also, there is no agreement of what alphabetical order to choose. In the Pywikipediabot, it is now specified to use alphabetical order by language name for en:, fr:, pl: and simple:, and alphabetical order by code for the other languages (where hu: puts en: first). Given that en: and de: here are different, any choice will surely get some big opposition I think...
My opinion is that the type of sort isn't significant. My goal is only to provide an interlink list always in the same order. But if this feature meets a lot of oppositions, maybe an option to un/acctivate the feature is necessary. Maybe this feature isn't a good idea ?
Emmanuel
Timwi wrote:
On the English Wikipedia we've already been doing it that way (sorting by the language code), but on the Hungarian Wikipedia (for example) they seem to think that English should always come first.
It is likely the case that the needs of different language communities will be different. Generally, I would imagine that people would like something like "the most popular second language spoken by speakers of this language" to be listed first. That might be English in many areas, but not necessarily everywhere.
One problem I see with alphabetic order is that 'Abkhazian' for example would always come first everywhere. According to Wikipedia, this language is only spoken by 4 different groups about whom Wikipedia has no article. :-(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazian_language
--Jimbo
Emmanuel Engelhart emmanuel@engelhart.org wrote:
Is somebody against the idea of sorting interwiki links in the alphanumerical order (by language: en always before fr) ? It will be easier to find a corresponding article in a specific language thus.
There is quite a long running poll at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Language_order_poll. Views on the English Wikipedia are fairly evenly split between "By order of alphabet, based on two letter code" and "By order of alphabet, based on local language".
Angela.
Angela_ wrote:
Emmanuel Engelhart emmanuel@engelhart.org wrote:
Is somebody against the idea of sorting interwiki links in the alphanumerical order (by language: en always before fr) ? It will be easier to find a corresponding article in a specific language thus.
There is quite a long running poll at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Language_order_poll. Views on the English Wikipedia are fairly evenly split between "By order of alphabet, based on two letter code" and "By order of alphabet, based on local language".
Angela.
And of course, other languages might have a different split :-)
Angela_ wrote:
There is quite a long running poll at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Language_order_poll. Views on the English Wikipedia are fairly evenly split between "By order of alphabet, based on two letter code" and "By order of alphabet, based on local language".
I just added my vote for "By order of usage pattern in local language", i.e. I think they should be ordered by how people in each wikipedia language community actually use them. This may require some study of logfiles to see what people are clicking on.
But that's just one vote. :-)
Am Dienstag, 20. Juli 2004 21:58 schrieb Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales:
I just added my vote for "By order of usage pattern in local language", i.e. I think they should be ordered by how people in each wikipedia language community actually use them. This may require some study of logfiles to see what people are clicking on.
Sorry if I'm totally missing the point, but users are not supposed to know this order when adding interwiki links manually, right? Will the software take care of that in some future version?
Exactly what i was thinking, i often drop in to en. and put some links to is: it would be great trouble to find out each time whats the most popular topic at each time.
I think a software solution would be ideal, perhaps a setting?
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:07:14 +0200, Leonard Vertighel leonard.vertighel@web.de wrote:
Am Dienstag, 20. Juli 2004 21:58 schrieb Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales:
I just added my vote for "By order of usage pattern in local language", i.e. I think they should be ordered by how people in each wikipedia language community actually use them. This may require some study of logfiles to see what people are clicking on.
Sorry if I'm totally missing the point, but users are not supposed to know this order when adding interwiki links manually, right? Will the software take care of that in some future version?
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:55:22 +0200 Emmanuel Engelhart emmanuel@engelhart.org wrote:
Hi
Is somebody against the idea of sorting interwiki links in the alphanumerical order (by language: en always before fr) ? It will be easier to find a corresponding article in a specific language thus.
Thx for all your comments. Follows a proposition:
-By default sort the interwiki links in the alphanumeric order (sort on en: fr: and other: )
-Set up an option for a spefic order
Emmanuel
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