After I heard about Liquid Threads in Berlin in April 2010, I immediately asked for it to be activated on sv.wikisource. This request took 4 months. A similar request for sv.wiktionary has still not been granted because it is "better to wait" for some future version.
Now, during the 1.17 upgrade, the namespaces Thread: and Summary: disappeared from sv.wikisource and this was reported on February 16, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27533 Still after two weeks, no response has been given. The central discussion / village pump is still broken.
Early on the Swedish community was very enthusiastic over LT and soon wanted it for the Swedish Wikipedia as well, but that enthusiasm is now hard to sustain.
Should we conclude that the switch to LT was a big mistake, and try to go back to plain old talk pages, never to attempt LT again? I think that question has already been answered by the fact that no comment has been given to the bug report of February 16, not even a time estimate.
Hoi, We are really happy using LiquidThreads at translatewiki.net. We use it in the most heady way at the cutting edge of its development and, while it has its glitches, I do not want to get back to the bad old days of talk pages.
At translatewiki.net we do not have the long and winding discussions that blight other projects so much so it may not be representative of what it will be like elsewhere, but in my opinion, perfection is the enemy of the good here. Thanks, GerardM
On 4 March 2011 16:17, Lars Aronsson lars@aronsson.se wrote:
After I heard about Liquid Threads in Berlin in April 2010, I immediately asked for it to be activated on sv.wikisource. This request took 4 months. A similar request for sv.wiktionary has still not been granted because it is "better to wait" for some future version.
Now, during the 1.17 upgrade, the namespaces Thread: and Summary: disappeared from sv.wikisource and this was reported on February 16, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27533 Still after two weeks, no response has been given. The central discussion / village pump is still broken.
Early on the Swedish community was very enthusiastic over LT and soon wanted it for the Swedish Wikipedia as well, but that enthusiasm is now hard to sustain.
Should we conclude that the switch to LT was a big mistake, and try to go back to plain old talk pages, never to attempt LT again? I think that question has already been answered by the fact that no comment has been given to the bug report of February 16, not even a time estimate.
-- Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Lars Aronsson wrote:
After I heard about Liquid Threads in Berlin in April 2010, I immediately asked for it to be activated on sv.wikisource. This request took 4 months. A similar request for sv.wiktionary has still not been granted because it is "better to wait" for some future version.
Now, during the 1.17 upgrade, the namespaces Thread: and Summary: disappeared from sv.wikisource and this was reported on February 16, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27533 Still after two weeks, no response has been given. The central discussion / village pump is still broken.
This is unacceptable.
Looking at the bug history, the Bugmeister updated the bug on February 19. I think in situations like this, the Bugmeister needs to be responsible for escalating these issues to the appropriate people, mostly as the Bugmeister is the person who will have read these bugs and will understand the impact. Marking the bugs as "critical" or "shell" is helpful, to a point. However, in cases where sites become unusable, people need to be e-mailed, poked on IRC, etc. until the problem is resolved. It isn't acceptable to have sites in this state (to say nothing of the damage these types of issues do to LiquidThreads adoption).
MZMcBride
MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com writes:
Looking at the bug history, the Bugmeister updated the bug on February 19. I think in situations like this, the Bugmeister needs to be responsible for escalating these issues to the appropriate people, mostly as the Bugmeister is the person who will have read these bugs and will understand the impact.
I agree that it is my responsibility to make sure that these things get handled in a timely manner. When something is escalated here on wikitech-l, it does show how I could be doing a better job. Obviously, I'm still learning how to do things and how to make sure that things get done.
In this case I would prefer to have the ticket updated instead of having a someone post to wikitech-l. But I understand that my preferences are not paramount and that wiki-users' frustration has grown with each day this is not addressed.
Since this is a shell request, I'm requesting RobH to look at it ASAP.
Mark.
On 04/03/11 16:29, MZMcBride wrote: <snip>
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27533 Still after two weeks, no response has been given. The central discussion / village pump is still broken.
This is unacceptable.
Being one of the handful of people handling shell requests, there is something almost anyone can do to help us: look at the cluster configuration file, find out the error and submit a hint / correction.
The configuration files are available at: http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/
Look at the section 'MediaWiki configuration', the most important one is probably InitialiseSettings.php
Hi Lars,
Thanks for raising these issues on wikitech-l.
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 2:17 AM, Lars Aronsson lars@aronsson.se wrote:
After I heard about Liquid Threads in Berlin in April 2010, I immediately asked for it to be activated on sv.wikisource. This request took 4 months. A similar request for sv.wiktionary has still not been granted because it is "better to wait" for some future version.
For context, here's a link to the full text of my comment on further pilot deployments.
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19699#c10
Now, during the 1.17 upgrade, the namespaces Thread: and Summary: disappeared from sv.wikisource and this was reported on February 16, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27533 Still after two weeks, no response has been given. The central discussion / village pump is still broken.
I've fixed this this afternoon.
My apologies for this oversight — I've been travelling and busy and not reading my bug mail. In future, if you want to escalate an issue with me, you can do it by private e-mail. I always read email sent directly to me, but I will sometimes ignore automatic bug mail because of the volume I receive.
Should we conclude that the switch to LT was a big mistake, and try to go back to plain old talk pages, never to attempt LT again? I think that question has already been answered by the fact that no comment has been given to the bug report of February 16, not even a time estimate.
Further pilot deployments to other Wikimedia projects is a high priority for us, but in order to do that, we need time to address some serious architectural shortcomings that have been causing pain on several projects. Saying that we are not intending to continue to test LiquidThreads is not accurate — we will be very happy to make further rollouts when our updates are completed in a few months.
I don't see our existing rollouts as mistakes — they've been invaluable in exposing the functional and technical limitations of LiquidThreads as it stands today, and they've helped shape the decisionmaking around the work that we're doing right now.
I realise that you've been very patient so far, and that I've not always been prompt in my dealings with the issue of deploying LiquidThreads to the Swedish projects that you'd like to see it on. Unfortunately, I can only ask that you are patient for another few months, while we prepare ourselves for a second round of pilots.
Thanks very much,
Andrew
On 03/05/2011 05:07 AM, Andrew Garrett wrote:
Further pilot deployments to other Wikimedia projects is a high priority for us, but in order to do that, we need time to address some serious architectural shortcomings that have been causing pain on several projects.
Well, pilot, your larger problem is that the passengers are now much more happy with the old train. I can't see any enthusiasm left in sv.wiktionary or sv.wikipedia for switching to Liquid Threads. So, no hurry at all.
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