Hello everyone,
This is my second attempt for a proposal, but I think this is a project that is *much* better than my previous one, and has a much bigger demand. I'd love to work on this as a GSoC project!
Before I submit this as an official proposal, I'd like to ask for your thoughts about this. The proposal concentrates on adding RTL support to VisualEditor, especially based on this requirements/spec page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Bidirectional_text_requirements Hebrew is my maiden language, and I'm familiar with a lot of the problems that are raised when using RTL, especially when using it alongside a mix of LTR and RTL languages.
A first draft of this proposal is available here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Mooeypoo/GSOC_2013_Proposal:_RTL_Support_...
I have experience with Javascript and jQuery, and I'm working on some Windows8 Metro apps as side projects, which rely heavily on javascript and html5. However, this is my first time applying for GSoC and it's my first time contributing to such a big project as MediaWiki and VisualEditor :)
I'd love to hear your thoughts, ideas and feedback! Thank you again,
Moriel Schottlender
My first thought is that this would be a fantastic project.
RTL support in the VisualEditor is a must in any case. Getting it done by a person who knows an RTL language is obviously preferable.
The general RTL requirement are already written (mostly by myself), and the proposal links to them.
There are several open questions, which should be answered by somebody who knows the VE (and possible Parsoid) code well:
1. Is the scope of this project appropriate for GSoC? It could be too small, because maybe the basic infrastructure for adding RTL attributes is already available through inspectors. It could also be too large, because maybe the current infrastructure is too rudimentary and the codebase is too complicated for a new student.
1.a If the scope is too small, one thing to consider would be to add support for a page language to MediaWiki. I refer to the topic that was recently discussed in a thread started by Erik Moeller: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-April/068705.html . This is something that would be very useful for good internationalization of the VisualEditor.
2. If the scope is appropriate, I would very gladly co-mentor this project, but another mentor from the VisualEditor team would be required.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2013/4/28 Moriel Schottlender moriel@gmail.com:
Hello everyone,
This is my second attempt for a proposal, but I think this is a project that is *much* better than my previous one, and has a much bigger demand. I'd love to work on this as a GSoC project!
Before I submit this as an official proposal, I'd like to ask for your thoughts about this. The proposal concentrates on adding RTL support to VisualEditor, especially based on this requirements/spec page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Bidirectional_text_requirements Hebrew is my maiden language, and I'm familiar with a lot of the problems that are raised when using RTL, especially when using it alongside a mix of LTR and RTL languages.
A first draft of this proposal is available here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Mooeypoo/GSOC_2013_Proposal:_RTL_Support_...
I have experience with Javascript and jQuery, and I'm working on some Windows8 Metro apps as side projects, which rely heavily on javascript and html5. However, this is my first time applying for GSoC and it's my first time contributing to such a big project as MediaWiki and VisualEditor :)
I'd love to hear your thoughts, ideas and feedback! Thank you again,
Moriel Schottlender
-- No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. But billions of electrons, photons, and electromagnetic waves were terribly inconvenienced during its transmission! _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 28 April 2013 13:04, Moriel Schottlender moriel@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone,
This is my second attempt for a proposal, but I think this is a project that is *much* better than my previous one, and has a much bigger demand. I'd love to work on this as a GSoC project!
Before I submit this as an official proposal, I'd like to ask for your thoughts about this. The proposal concentrates on adding RTL support to VisualEditor, especially based on this requirements/spec page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Bidirectional_text_requirements Hebrew is my maiden language, and I'm familiar with a lot of the problems that are raised when using RTL, especially when using it alongside a mix of LTR and RTL languages.
A first draft of this proposal is available here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Mooeypoo/GSOC_2013_Proposal:_RTL_Support_...
I have experience with Javascript and jQuery, and I'm working on some Windows8 Metro apps as side projects, which rely heavily on javascript and html5. However, this is my first time applying for GSoC and it's my first time contributing to such a big project as MediaWiki and VisualEditor :)
I'd love to hear your thoughts, ideas and feedback! Thank you again,
Moriel Schottlender
Moriel,
Thank you for your proposal. It's a hugely-important area for us, and having someone come forward to work on it is very welcome. (As Amir puts it, "getting [RTL support] done by a person who knows an RTL language is obviously preferable".) It would be really excellent to have you work on this.
That said, I worry that this wouldn't be an ideal fit for Google Summer of Code. The project as a project is as "stand-alone" as they recommend, and would involve getting very deep into the intricacies of how the "ContentEditable" area of VisualEditor works. This would be a huge amount for you to learn - less a learning hill and more a cliff, and right now this area of the code is changing quite a lot so it would be difficult to work in RTL changes. Inez (copied), who's one of our "ContentEditable" leads, has said he'd be keen to mentor you on this, and I'd love to co-mentor.
There's also the issue that this is frankly stuff we should be getting right already. :-) It would be hard for you to "own" the result as much, and it would be difficult to schedule the work into a timetable as Google suggests - as we added new features, we would no-doubt extend your work on indefinitely, and it would be hard to find the point where you were "done". If you're worried about ownership and lack of scope, improving language support in the VisualEditor starts but does not end with the core RTL support outlined in that document. There are a number of things that you might wish to also do, like add a "language inspector" that would let a user tag a section of the page they're editing as in a language (for multi-lingual wikis).
Just as a reminder, you should put this forward into the GSoC system (at https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/dashboard/google/gsoc2013 ) as soon as possible. Happy to answer any questions you have!
Yours, -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
James Forrester <jforrester <at> wikimedia.org> writes:
On 28 April 2013 13:04, Moriel Schottlender <moriel <at> gmail.com> wrote:
Hello everyone,
This is my second attempt for a proposal, but I think this is a project that is *much* better than my previous one, and has a much bigger
demand.
I'd love to work on this as a GSoC project!
Before I submit this as an official proposal, I'd like to ask for your thoughts about this. The proposal concentrates on adding RTL support to VisualEditor, especially based on this requirements/spec page:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Bidirectional_text_requirements
Hebrew is my maiden language, and I'm familiar with a lot of the
problems
that are raised when using RTL, especially when using it alongside a mix
of
LTR and RTL languages.
A first draft of this proposal is available here:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Mooeypoo/GSOC_2013_Proposal:_RTL_Support_ in_VisualEditor
I have experience with Javascript and jQuery, and I'm working on some Windows8 Metro apps as side projects, which rely heavily on javascript
and
html5. However, this is my first time applying for GSoC and it's my
first
time contributing to such a big project as MediaWiki and VisualEditor :)
I'd love to hear your thoughts, ideas and feedback! Thank you again,
Moriel Schottlender
Moriel,
Thank you for your proposal. It's a hugely-important area for us, and having someone come forward to work on it is very welcome. (As Amir puts it, "getting [RTL support] done by a person who knows an RTL language is obviously preferable".) It would be really excellent to have you work on this.
That said, I worry that this wouldn't be an ideal fit for Google Summer of Code. The project as a project is as "stand-alone" as they recommend, and would involve getting very deep into the intricacies of how the "ContentEditable" area of VisualEditor works. This would be a huge amount for you to learn - less a learning hill and more a cliff, and right now this area of the code is changing quite a lot so it would be difficult to work in RTL changes. Inez (copied), who's one of our "ContentEditable" leads, has said he'd be keen to mentor you on this, and I'd love to co-mentor.
There's also the issue that this is frankly stuff we should be getting right already. It would be hard for you to "own" the result as much, and it would be difficult to schedule the work into a timetable as Google suggests - as we added new features, we would no-doubt extend your work on indefinitely, and it would be hard to find the point where you were "done". If you're worried about ownership and lack of scope, improving language support in the VisualEditor starts but does not end with the core RTL support outlined in that document. There are a number of things that you might wish to also do, like add a "language inspector" that would let a user tag a section of the page they're editing as in a language (for multi-lingual wikis).
Just as a reminder, you should put this forward into the GSoC system (at https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/dashboard/google/gsoc2013 ) as soon as possible. Happy to answer any questions you have!
Yours,
James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester <at> wikimedia.org | <at> jdforrester
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l <at> lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hi again,
James, thank you very much for your answer and thoughtful points. I have to admit, I had a feeling this may be something that's not as "easy as it sounds". However, I am *more* than ready for the challenge. I am pretty confident with jQuery and general Javascript, and I consider myself a quick learner. But more than everything, I think I can get into the project if I have a bit of help pointing me in the right direction.
The issue of the changing code may be a bigger problem, though; I want to make sure I contribute something beneficial -- do you think it is possible to work on a project that serves as groundwork for later improvement? If we know in advance the code is going through changes, perhaps I can work on a more flexible addition that can be adapted slightly to changes in the underlying system.
It's hard for me to recommend the proper strategy at the moment, but I am wondering if this may be a good idea to add or think about when working on the project. I'd love to be able to work on this project, and I think that with a bit of planning, we may be able to find a strategy that can work despite the changing and updating code. Do you think it's realistic?
Regarding ownership etc, I want to contribute and help the project regardless. GSoC is simply an awesome entry-point to help me get into the process with the help of a mentor and an organized project, so I'd like to try and see if I can join through the official process..
I submitted the application officially to the GSoC site and updated my status in the general GSoC2013 page. I'm also hoping to update the proposal itself in the next few days based on your recommendations.
Thanks again for the input, and let me know what you think of my suggestions,
Moriel
2013/4/29 James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org
Thank you for your proposal. It's a hugely-important area for us, and having someone come forward to work on it is very welcome. (As Amir puts it, "getting [RTL support] done by a person who knows an RTL language is obviously preferable".) It would be really excellent to have you work on this.
Thanks a lot for the reply, James.
If you're worried about ownership and lack of scope, improving language support in the VisualEditor starts but does not end with the core RTL support outlined in that document.
RTL support is one of the cases of language support. That's why there is also an internationalization requirements document: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Internationalization_requirement...
The bidirectional requirements document depends on the implementation of the general internationalization requirements.
There are a number of things that you might wish to also do, like add a "language inspector" that would let a user tag a section of the page they're editing as in a language (for multi-lingual wikis).
This is, indeed, something that must be done before starting the implementation of comprehensive RTL support. If you think that it can be a good GSoC project or a part thereof, I fully support it.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org