On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM, dantman@svn.wikimedia.org wrote:
Log Message:
Cleaning out old comments and changing display of restricted pages. Splarka suggested marking restricted pages with a star bullet rather than bolding them.
I don't like this change. It's inconsistent with the way we usually do interfaces (we practically never use images to convey info), and the star is also a little off-center. It looks kind of ugly to me. It will break if users have images disabled, or of course if they're using a non-visual browser or one that doesn't support CSS: there's no graceful fallback.
I suggest going back to bolding them, but rather than using <li class="mw-specialpagerestricted">, use <strong class="mw-specialpagerestricted"> so that the restricted pages are emphasized regardless of visual CSS support. This is more consistent with the way we normally distinguish elements of lists in the interface and also more accessible.
Well fixup what you want now... I was going to fix it up the way you mentioned. But seeing the self-scaling layout reverted back to a crappy table based layout puts me out of the mood for changing more specialpages listing stuff for now.
~Daniel Friesen(Dantman) of: -The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com) --It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com) --Games-G.P.S. (http://ggps.org) -And Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG)
Simetrical wrote:
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM, dantman@svn.wikimedia.org wrote:
Log Message:
Cleaning out old comments and changing display of restricted pages. Splarka suggested marking restricted pages with a star bullet rather than bolding them.
I don't like this change. It's inconsistent with the way we usually do interfaces (we practically never use images to convey info), and the star is also a little off-center. It looks kind of ugly to me. It will break if users have images disabled, or of course if they're using a non-visual browser or one that doesn't support CSS: there's no graceful fallback.
I suggest going back to bolding them, but rather than using <li class="mw-specialpagerestricted">, use <strong class="mw-specialpagerestricted"> so that the restricted pages are emphasized regardless of visual CSS support. This is more consistent with the way we normally distinguish elements of lists in the interface and also more accessible.
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Simetrical wrote:
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM, dantman wrote:
Log Message:
Cleaning out old comments and changing display of restricted pages. Splarka suggested marking restricted pages with a star bullet rather than bolding them.
I don't like this change. It's inconsistent with the way we usually do interfaces (we practically never use images to convey info), and the star is also a little off-center. It looks kind of ugly to me. It will break if users have images disabled, or of course if they're using a non-visual browser or one that doesn't support CSS: there's no graceful fallback.
I suggest going back to bolding them, but rather than using <li class="mw-specialpagerestricted">, use <strong class="mw-specialpagerestricted"> so that the restricted pages are emphasized regardless of visual CSS support. This is more consistent with the way we normally distinguish elements of lists in the interface and also more accessible.
No. Don't use html to set the difference, use a dedicated style. Should we use <font color="red" class="new"> for new links just in case they don't support CSS?? What's the point in emphasizing/bolding it anyway? I'd favour an italic for that...
Ack nooo... T_T Not font tags... Yes, perhaps more of an italic.
Honestly this is a lot of discussion for an off piece of functionality. The point of highlighting the specialpage was to keep a bit of old functionality. Because all/restricted special pages were separated into two ugly sections people knew which were restricted. The highlighting was just a way to keep that identification while actually merging those sections together. Honestly, the point was to keep current functionality, and wait for the community to realize "Hey, that there really is pretty pointless... Why don't we just get rid of it?" instead of right away having a bunch of complaints on "This useless functionality was removed, we want it back...", and yes, those kind of comments do come in.
~Daniel Friesen(Dantman) of: -The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com) --It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com) --Games-G.P.S. (http://ggps.org) -And Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG)
Platonides wrote:
Simetrical wrote:
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM, dantman wrote:
Log Message:
Cleaning out old comments and changing display of restricted pages. Splarka suggested marking restricted pages with a star bullet rather than bolding them.
I don't like this change. It's inconsistent with the way we usually do interfaces (we practically never use images to convey info), and the star is also a little off-center. It looks kind of ugly to me. It will break if users have images disabled, or of course if they're using a non-visual browser or one that doesn't support CSS: there's no graceful fallback.
I suggest going back to bolding them, but rather than using <li class="mw-specialpagerestricted">, use <strong class="mw-specialpagerestricted"> so that the restricted pages are emphasized regardless of visual CSS support. This is more consistent with the way we normally distinguish elements of lists in the interface and also more accessible.
No. Don't use html to set the difference, use a dedicated style. Should we use <font color="red" class="new"> for new links just in case they don't support CSS?? What's the point in emphasizing/bolding it anyway? I'd favour an italic for that...
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Platonides Platonides@gmail.com wrote:
No. Don't use html to set the difference, use a dedicated style. Should we use <font color="red" class="new"> for new links just in case they don't support CSS??
No, but where a semantic tag exists, it should be used rather than (or at least in addition to) the generic <div> or <span> or a class. This helps to ensure graceful fallback in non-CSS clients. When setting off text to convey additional information, a tag such as <em> or <strong> should be used.
Note that a significant part of the issue with non-CSS clients is clients like screen readers or text-only browsers, which would probably not support <font> any better.
New links are different for three reasons (in descending order of importance):
1) There's no appropriate semantic tag to use to distinguish them.
2) Fallback in the case of new links is more graceful. Users who can't see the coloring simply lose the added functionality without ever having to know about it. In the case of the current special pages setup, on the other hand, you lose the functionality but also get a nonsensical usage note which will only serve to confuse you.
3) There's an option to use a different display format that appends a question mark, which any client will be able to read.
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