Hi everyone,
We're planning to deploy Lua to a long list of wikis on Monday, February 18, 23:00-01:00 UTC (stretching into Tuesday UTC), including English Wikipedia.
Details here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Lua
Jan Kučera (User:Kozuch) has placed notifications on many of the wikis. Those notifications and general communications listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kozuch/Lua
This is a really exciting deployment for the projects. We're really looking forward to seeing the great things that people do with this, and looking forward to making editing and previewing more responsive for template-heavy pages.
Rob
Hi Rob,
this is really great and exciting and we were long waiting for this day. Let's rock! :-)
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Rob Lanphier robla@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
We're planning to deploy Lua to a long list of wikis on Monday, February 18, 23:00-01:00 UTC (stretching into Tuesday UTC), including English Wikipedia.
Details here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Lua
Jan Kučera (User:Kozuch) has placed notifications on many of the wikis. Those notifications and general communications listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kozuch/Lua
I didn't see it in the docs above, so thought I'd ask... Is this going to include rollout of the CodeEditor extension, or will that be done separately?
This is a really exciting deployment for the projects. We're really looking forward to seeing the great things that people do with this, and looking forward to making editing and previewing more responsive for template-heavy pages.
Rob
This is exciting! Do we have plans for further measurement when it comes to Lua's impact on page load times/publishing any results so far? In addition to the general benefit of not having to program using wikitext/parser functions, I seem to remember the performance improvements being the big selling point of Scribunto.
Best of luck on the launch,
Hi Steven,
Thanks for the encouragement! Comments inline:
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
I didn't see it in the docs above, so thought I'd ask... Is this going to include rollout of the CodeEditor extension, or will that be done separately?
That's a good question. My initial instinct is to say "just Scribunto/Lua", but follow that closely with a CodeEditor deployment very soon. Tim may have something else in mind for this, though, so he may correct me.. Is there any reason you're aware of not to deploy CodeEditor as well? Any reason why we should avoid deploying Scribunto without CodeEditor?
This is exciting! Do we have plans for further measurement when it comes to Lua's impact on page load times/publishing any results so far? In addition to the general benefit of not having to program using wikitext/parser functions, I seem to remember the performance improvements being the big selling point of Scribunto.
Tim did some initial benchmarks which showed a pretty marked improvement with the Cite template: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Lua_scripting/Benchmarking
The cluster impact is going to be pretty modest (possibly unmeasurable at this point) but will have a positive impact once templates are converted to Lua.
Rob
Hello,
What is Lua?
Thanks, Sirbu Nicolae-Cezar
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 12:42 AM, Rob Lanphier robla@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Steven,
Thanks for the encouragement! Comments inline:
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
I didn't see it in the docs above, so thought I'd ask... Is this going to include rollout of the CodeEditor extension, or will that be done separately?
That's a good question. My initial instinct is to say "just Scribunto/Lua", but follow that closely with a CodeEditor deployment very soon. Tim may have something else in mind for this, though, so he may correct me.. Is there any reason you're aware of not to deploy CodeEditor as well? Any reason why we should avoid deploying Scribunto without CodeEditor?
This is exciting! Do we have plans for further measurement when it comes
to
Lua's impact on page load times/publishing any results so far? In
addition
to the general benefit of not having to program using wikitext/parser functions, I seem to remember the performance improvements being the big selling point of Scribunto.
Tim did some initial benchmarks which showed a pretty marked improvement with the Cite template: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Lua_scripting/Benchmarking
The cluster impact is going to be pretty modest (possibly unmeasurable at this point) but will have a positive impact once templates are converted to Lua.
Rob
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 02/15/2013 06:03 PM, Sîrbu Nicolae-Cezar wrote:
Hello,
What is Lua?
Thanks, Sirbu Nicolae-Cezar
It is a programming language used for embedded scripting. Scribunto is a MediaWiki extension that allows you to write templates in Lua (other languages possibly coming later). Done right, this can be clearer, more powerful, and more efficient than the current ParserFunction templates.
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Lua for more information.
Matt Flaschen
Looping wikitech-ambassadors back in.
If someone had to ask at all and they did ask on wikitech-ambassadors then answer should go to wikitech-ambassadors too.
Anyway, the gist is: Existing pages/templates will continue to work as they are. A new (optional) way of writing templates will now be available which will make server performance better (and give you faster responses when you save some pages) and will also make writing some things possible if not before or at least much simpler to implement. Over time editors at the various wikis will convert some templates to use the new format.
-Jeremy
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:31 AM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Lua rollout to en.wikipedia.org and a few others To: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
On 02/15/2013 06:03 PM, Sîrbu Nicolae-Cezar wrote:
Hello,
What is Lua?
Thanks, Sirbu Nicolae-Cezar
It is a programming language used for embedded scripting. Scribunto is a MediaWiki extension that allows you to write templates in Lua (other languages possibly coming later). Done right, this can be clearer, more powerful, and more efficient than the current ParserFunction templates.
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Lua for more information.
Matt Flaschen
_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
2013/2/16 Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org
See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Lua for more information.
That's a surprise for me! I thought Scribunto would be deployed to much
more wikis in the first run. How did huwiki get in this batch? I am really happy with this.
On 16/02/13 07:55, Steven Walling wrote:
I didn't see it in the docs above, so thought I'd ask... Is this going to include rollout of the CodeEditor extension, or will that be done separately?
CodeEditor will be enabled, but with $wgCodeEditorEnableCore = false, i.e. in the Module namespace only, not in the MediaWiki namespace. This is the same way we deployed it to mediawiki.org
As I said to Ori when he asked me about this: I'm fine with it being deployed with $wgCodeEditorEnableCore = true, I just don't want to have to project manage it, since large JS apps are not the sort of thing I usually do. With $wgCodeEditorEnableCore = true, it's a fairly disruptive extension, so it would be good to have someone handling community notifications and bug reports.
This is exciting! Do we have plans for further measurement when it comes to Lua's impact on page load times/publishing any results so far? In addition to the general benefit of not having to program using wikitext/parser functions, I seem to remember the performance improvements being the big selling point of Scribunto.
It will be possible to gather some retrospective data from slow-parse.log.
-- Tim Starling
You could activate also in pt.wikibooks.org? We made a script that is already functional and it would be very useful https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Module:Nav
2013/2/18 Tim Starling tstarling@wikimedia.org
On 16/02/13 07:55, Steven Walling wrote:
I didn't see it in the docs above, so thought I'd ask... Is this going to include rollout of the CodeEditor extension, or will that be done separately?
CodeEditor will be enabled, but with $wgCodeEditorEnableCore = false, i.e. in the Module namespace only, not in the MediaWiki namespace. This is the same way we deployed it to mediawiki.org
As I said to Ori when he asked me about this: I'm fine with it being deployed with $wgCodeEditorEnableCore = true, I just don't want to have to project manage it, since large JS apps are not the sort of thing I usually do. With $wgCodeEditorEnableCore = true, it's a fairly disruptive extension, so it would be good to have someone handling community notifications and bug reports.
This is exciting! Do we have plans for further measurement when it comes to Lua's impact on page load times/publishing any results so far? In addition to the general benefit of not having to program using wikitext/parser functions, I seem to remember the performance improvements being the big selling point of Scribunto.
It will be possible to gather some retrospective data from slow-parse.log.
-- Tim Starling
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Sunday, February 17, 2013 at 10:56 PM, Tim Starling wrote:
On 16/02/13 07:55, Steven Walling wrote:
I didn't see it in the docs above, so thought I'd ask... Is this going to include rollout of the CodeEditor extension, or will that be done separately?
CodeEditor will be enabled, but with $wgCodeEditorEnableCore = false, i.e. in the Module namespace only, not in the MediaWiki namespace. This is the same way we deployed it to mediawiki.org (http://mediawiki.org)
As I said to Ori when he asked me about this: I'm fine with it being deployed with $wgCodeEditorEnableCore = true, I just don't want to have to project manage it, since large JS apps are not the sort of thing I usually do. With $wgCodeEditorEnableCore = true, it's a fairly disruptive extension, so it would be good to have someone handling community notifications and bug reports.
I'm interested in seeing this through (= enabling CodeEditor on MediaWiki NS), but I need a bit more time with the extension first so I can size up how much ongoing work it will require. There's already a bug asking for it to be deployed: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39654. I propose we (meaning anyone interested in this deployment, Tim exempted per above) track progress there.
This is exciting! Do we have plans for further measurement when it comes to Lua's impact on page load times/publishing any results so far? In addition to the general benefit of not having to program using wikitext/parser functions, I seem to remember the performance improvements being the big selling point of Scribunto.
It will be possible to gather some retrospective data from slow-parse.log.
To expand a little: slow-parse.log is a log file on fluorine (accessible to users with shell; the file is in /a/mw-log) that gets an entry every time an article takes more than three seconds to render. Each entry looks like this:
2013-02-18 12:55:18 mw1058 enwiki: 4.25 War_of_the_First_Coalition
The fields are (from left to right) current date, current time, host, wiki, rendering time, title.
We have six months' worth of logs, broken down by calendar day, in /a/mw-log/archive. The oldest is 2012-08-22. (we may have older files on tape backup). Log files are about 14-15 MB, gzipped. Six months' worth is 2.4 GB.
If this information were made more visible, it could give editors a palpable sense of accomplishment as expensive templates are ported to lua. I don't think the logs contain any sensitive data, so it should be doable to set up an rsync job to sync them to labs and thus make them available for people to analyze and visualize. Would anyone be interested in that? (I'm CCing the analytics list as well.)
As Rob notes, deployment of lua is not by itself expected to have an impact on rendering time; rather, it is the porting of templates to use it that will speed things up. The full picture will only emerge in the weeks / months + following deployment.
Anyways, I'm pretty excited about this. It's a big change. Congrats to all involved.
-Ori
On 02/15/2013 03:33 PM, Rob Lanphier wrote:
Hi everyone,
We're planning to deploy Lua to a long list of wikis on Monday, February 18, 23:00-01:00 UTC (stretching into Tuesday UTC), including English Wikipedia.
Details here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Lua
This is A Big Deal. Congratulations to the whole team!
Matt Flaschen
Is there any way to handle Unicode strings in the version that is going to be deployed? For example, things like getting the length of the string "François" as 8 rather than 9?
If not, is there any plan to have this ability any time soon?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2013/2/16 Rob Lanphier robla@wikimedia.org:
Hi everyone,
We're planning to deploy Lua to a long list of wikis on Monday, February 18, 23:00-01:00 UTC (stretching into Tuesday UTC), including English Wikipedia.
Details here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Lua
Jan Kučera (User:Kozuch) has placed notifications on many of the wikis. Those notifications and general communications listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kozuch/Lua
This is a really exciting deployment for the projects. We're really looking forward to seeing the great things that people do with this, and looking forward to making editing and previewing more responsive for template-heavy pages.
Rob
Wikitech-ambassadors mailing list Wikitech-ambassadors@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-ambassadors
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
Is there any way to handle Unicode strings in the version that is going to be deployed? For example, things like getting the length of the string "François" as 8 rather than 9?
If not, is there any plan to have this ability any time soon?
Yes, a library has been written for Scribunto called "ustring" to handle unicode. We've actually got docs for this (and a couple of other libraries) available on mw.org[0].
-Chad
[0] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual
Thanks a lot! This work correctly in the deployed version. I made a tiny test here: writing a module: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Module:StringLength using a module: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Amire80/Scribunto
-- Amir
2013/2/16 Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com:
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
Is there any way to handle Unicode strings in the version that is going to be deployed? For example, things like getting the length of the string "François" as 8 rather than 9?
If not, is there any plan to have this ability any time soon?
Yes, a library has been written for Scribunto called "ustring" to handle unicode. We've actually got docs for this (and a couple of other libraries) available on mw.org[0].
-Chad
[0] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wiadomość napisana przez Rob Lanphier w dniu 2013-02-15, o godz. 21:33:
Hi everyone,
We're planning to deploy Lua to a long list of wikis on Monday, February 18, 23:00-01:00 UTC (stretching into Tuesday UTC), including English Wikipedia.
Details here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Lua
Jan Kučera (User:Kozuch) has placed notifications on many of the wikis. Those notifications and general communications listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kozuch/Lua
This is a really exciting deployment for the projects. We're really looking forward to seeing the great things that people do with this, and looking forward to making editing and previewing more responsive for template-heavy pages.
Rob
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
What about locale? In Lua, identifiers can be made of any letters (and digits) and what is a letter is decided basing on locale. Will it be possible to use non-english or even non-latin characters in scripts?
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Sebastian Skałacki skalee@gmail.com wrote:
What about locale? In Lua, identifiers can be made of any letters (and digits) and what is a letter is decided basing on locale. Will it be possible to use non-english or even non-latin characters in scripts?
Note that Lua 5.2 removed the support for non-ASCII characters in identifiers. I don't know whether Scribunto will allow non-ASCII characters in identifiers currently, but it would be best to stick with ASCII anyway.
Note this only applies to identifiers (e.g. variable names). Strings and comments may contain literal UTF-8 characters without issue, and the mw.ustring library is available to manipulate them.
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org