Hey, Mailman, the software that powers our mailing lists, is extremely old, by looking at https://lists.wikimedia.org/ you can guess how old it is.
I would really like to upgrade it to mailman 3 which has these benefits: * Much better security (including but not limited to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T181803) * Much better UI and UX * Much easier moderation and maintaining mailing lists * Ability to send mail from the web * Ability to search in archives. * Ability to like/dislike an email * List admins will be able to delete emails, merge threads, and much more. * Admins won't need to store passwords for each mailing list separately, they just login as their account everywhere. * The current mailman stores everything as files (even mailing list settings), mailman3 actually uses a proper database for everything meaning proper backup and recovery, high availability and much more.
I have already put up a test setup and humbly ask you (specially list admins) to test it (and its admin interface), if you want to become a list admin, drop me a message. Keep in mind that we don't maintain the software so the most I can do is to change configuration and can't handle a feature request or solve a bug (you are more than welcome to file it against upstream though)
Here's the test setup: * https://lists.wmcloud.org
Here's a mailing list: * https://lists.wmcloud.org/postorius/lists/test.lists.wmcloud.org/
Here's an archive post: * https://lists.wmcloud.org/hyperkitty/list/test@lists.wmcloud.org/thread/RMQP...
Issues that I haven't figured out yet: * This system has profile picture support but it's only gravatar which we can't enable due to our privacy policy but when you disable it, it shows empty squares and looks bad. Reported upstream [1] but also we can have a gravatar proxy in production. And in the worst case scenario we can just inject "$('.gravatar').remove();" and remove them. Feel free to chime in in the phabricator ticket in this regard: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256541
* Upgrade will break archive links, making it work forever is not trivial (you need write apache rewrite rule) (You can read about it in https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations)
* Mailman allows us to upgrade mailing list by mailing list, that's good but we haven't found a way to keep the old version and the new ones in sync (archives, etc.). Maybe we migrate a mailing list and the archives for the old version will stop getting updated. Would that work for you? Feel free to chime in: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256539
* We don't know what would be the size of the database after upgrade because these two versions are so inherently different, one idea was to check the size of a fully public mailing list, then move the files to the test setup, upgrade it to the new version and check how it changes, then extrapolate the size of the final database. The discussion around the database is happening in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256538
If you want to help in the upgrade (like puppetzining its configuration, etc.) just let me know and I add you to the project! It uses a stand-alone puppetmaster so you don't need to get your puppet patches merged to see its effects.
The main ticket about the upgrade: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T52864
[1] https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues/303#note_365162201
Hope that'll be useful for you :)
Thank you so much!
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020, 13:56 Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
Hey, Mailman, the software that powers our mailing lists, is extremely old, by looking at https://lists.wikimedia.org/ you can guess how old it is.
I would really like to upgrade it to mailman 3 which has these benefits:
- Much better security (including but not limited to
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T181803)
- Much better UI and UX
- Much easier moderation and maintaining mailing lists
- Ability to send mail from the web
- Ability to search in archives.
- Ability to like/dislike an email
- List admins will be able to delete emails, merge threads, and much more.
- Admins won't need to store passwords for each mailing list separately,
they just login as their account everywhere.
- The current mailman stores everything as files (even mailing list
settings), mailman3 actually uses a proper database for everything meaning proper backup and recovery, high availability and much more.
I have already put up a test setup and humbly ask you (specially list admins) to test it (and its admin interface), if you want to become a list admin, drop me a message. Keep in mind that we don't maintain the software so the most I can do is to change configuration and can't handle a feature request or solve a bug (you are more than welcome to file it against upstream though)
Here's the test setup:
Here's a mailing list:
Here's an archive post:
https://lists.wmcloud.org/hyperkitty/list/test@lists.wmcloud.org/thread/RMQP...
Issues that I haven't figured out yet:
- This system has profile picture support but it's only gravatar which we
can't enable due to our privacy policy but when you disable it, it shows empty squares and looks bad. Reported upstream [1] but also we can have a gravatar proxy in production. And in the worst case scenario we can just inject "$('.gravatar').remove();" and remove them. Feel free to chime in in the phabricator ticket in this regard: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256541
- Upgrade will break archive links, making it work forever is not trivial
(you need write apache rewrite rule) (You can read about it in https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations)
- Mailman allows us to upgrade mailing list by mailing list, that's good
but we haven't found a way to keep the old version and the new ones in sync (archives, etc.). Maybe we migrate a mailing list and the archives for the old version will stop getting updated. Would that work for you? Feel free to chime in: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256539
- We don't know what would be the size of the database after upgrade
because these two versions are so inherently different, one idea was to check the size of a fully public mailing list, then move the files to the test setup, upgrade it to the new version and check how it changes, then extrapolate the size of the final database. The discussion around the database is happening in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256538
If you want to help in the upgrade (like puppetzining its configuration, etc.) just let me know and I add you to the project! It uses a stand-alone puppetmaster so you don't need to get your puppet patches merged to see its effects.
The main ticket about the upgrade: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T52864
[1] https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues/303#note_365162201
Hope that'll be useful for you :)
Amir (he/him) _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Great! It's really good and useful.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 7:41 AM Denny Vrandečić dvrandecic@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thank you so much!
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020, 13:56 Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
Hey, Mailman, the software that powers our mailing lists, is extremely old, by looking at https://lists.wikimedia.org/ you can guess how old it is.
I would really like to upgrade it to mailman 3 which has these benefits:
- Much better security (including but not limited to
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T181803)
- Much better UI and UX
- Much easier moderation and maintaining mailing lists
- Ability to send mail from the web
- Ability to search in archives.
- Ability to like/dislike an email
- List admins will be able to delete emails, merge threads, and much
more.
- Admins won't need to store passwords for each mailing list separately,
they just login as their account everywhere.
- The current mailman stores everything as files (even mailing list
settings), mailman3 actually uses a proper database for everything
meaning
proper backup and recovery, high availability and much more.
I have already put up a test setup and humbly ask you (specially list admins) to test it (and its admin interface), if you want to become a
list
admin, drop me a message. Keep in mind that we don't maintain the
software
so the most I can do is to change configuration and can't handle a
feature
request or solve a bug (you are more than welcome to file it against upstream though)
Here's the test setup:
Here's a mailing list:
Here's an archive post:
https://lists.wmcloud.org/hyperkitty/list/test@lists.wmcloud.org/thread/RMQP...
Issues that I haven't figured out yet:
- This system has profile picture support but it's only gravatar which we
can't enable due to our privacy policy but when you disable it, it shows empty squares and looks bad. Reported upstream [1] but also we can have a gravatar proxy in production. And in the worst case scenario we can just inject "$('.gravatar').remove();" and remove them. Feel free to chime in
in
the phabricator ticket in this regard: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256541
- Upgrade will break archive links, making it work forever is not trivial
(you need write apache rewrite rule) (You can read about it in https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations)
- Mailman allows us to upgrade mailing list by mailing list, that's good
but we haven't found a way to keep the old version and the new ones in
sync
(archives, etc.). Maybe we migrate a mailing list and the archives for
the
old version will stop getting updated. Would that work for you? Feel free to chime in: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256539
- We don't know what would be the size of the database after upgrade
because these two versions are so inherently different, one idea was to check the size of a fully public mailing list, then move the files to the test setup, upgrade it to the new version and check how it changes, then extrapolate the size of the final database. The discussion around the database is happening in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256538
If you want to help in the upgrade (like puppetzining its configuration, etc.) just let me know and I add you to the project! It uses a
stand-alone
puppetmaster so you don't need to get your puppet patches merged to see
its
effects.
The main ticket about the upgrade: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T52864
[1] https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues/303#note_365162201
Hope that'll be useful for you :)
Amir (he/him) _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hi,
On 9 ஆகஸ்ட், 2020 2:25:30 AM IST, Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
Hey, Mailman, the software that powers our mailing lists, is extremely old, by looking at https://lists.wikimedia.org/ you can guess how old it is.
I would really like to upgrade it to mailman 3 which has these benefits:
- Much better security (including but not limited to
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T181803)
- Much better UI and UX
Including a mobile friendly archive page! I really love this. Thanks!!
Hello, this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
Best regards, Zoran Dori Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects E: zorandori4444@gmail.com W: kizule.tk I: iamkizule https://instagram.com/iamkizule
Glad to hear this is moving forward!
Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists, should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep that around.
ACN
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori zorandori4444@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
Best regards, Zoran Dori Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects E: zorandori4444@gmail.com W: kizule.tk I: iamkizule https://instagram.com/iamkizule _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How will the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to construct a redirect farm?
- d.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber anticompositenumber@gmail.com wrote:
Glad to hear this is moving forward!
Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists, should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep that around.
ACN
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori zorandori4444@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
Best regards, Zoran Dori Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects E: zorandori4444@gmail.com W: kizule.tk I: iamkizule https://instagram.com/iamkizule _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
According to the upgrade guide ( https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations): "If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep the HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to viewers that it is now a read-only archive, see this list https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/ for example)."
Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/ (with a notice).
It means, the old archives will stay the same (and accessible/searchable with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there to the old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How will the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to construct a redirect farm?
- d.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber anticompositenumber@gmail.com wrote:
Glad to hear this is moving forward!
Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists, should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep that around.
ACN
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori zorandori4444@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello, this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
Best regards, Zoran Dori Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects E: zorandori4444@gmail.com W: kizule.tk I: iamkizule https://instagram.com/iamkizule _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
I would agree that it would be a good solution, except for the next bullet in the same document: "The above mechanism won’t work for private archives since the archives are gated with password and without a Mailman 2 list, there is no password. You can however import them to Mailman 3."
Since keeping private lists private is also a requirement, that pretty much means rolling our own auth system on top of Mailman 3 or creating a bunch of HTTP redirect rules.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
According to the upgrade guide ( https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations): "If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep the HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to viewers that it is now a read-only archive, see this list https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/ for example)."
Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/ (with a notice).
It means, the old archives will stay the same (and accessible/searchable with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there to the old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How will the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to construct a redirect farm?
- d.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber anticompositenumber@gmail.com wrote:
Glad to hear this is moving forward!
Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists, should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep that around.
ACN
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori zorandori4444@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello, this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
Best regards, Zoran Dori Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects E: zorandori4444@gmail.com W: kizule.tk I: iamkizule https://instagram.com/iamkizule _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Amir (he/him) _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
hmm, Links of archived discussions in private mailing lists are not as important as the ones in public lists, we definitely should migrate public mailing lists first and after that we can migrate any private mailing list that is okay with their links being broken (and then we remove those old archives to make it unaccessible to public). It probably means we need to keep mailman2 around for a while.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:38 PM AntiCompositeNumber < anticompositenumber@gmail.com> wrote:
I would agree that it would be a good solution, except for the next bullet in the same document: "The above mechanism won’t work for private archives since the archives are gated with password and without a Mailman 2 list, there is no password. You can however import them to Mailman 3."
Since keeping private lists private is also a requirement, that pretty much means rolling our own auth system on top of Mailman 3 or creating a bunch of HTTP redirect rules.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
According to the upgrade guide ( https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations
):
"If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep the HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to viewers that it is now a read-only archive, see this list https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/ for example)."
Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/
(with a
notice).
It means, the old archives will stay the same (and accessible/searchable with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there to
the
old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How will the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to construct a redirect farm?
- d.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber anticompositenumber@gmail.com wrote:
Glad to hear this is moving forward!
Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists, should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep that around.
ACN
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori zorandori4444@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello, this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
Best regards, Zoran Dori Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects E: zorandori4444@gmail.com W: kizule.tk I: iamkizule https://instagram.com/iamkizule _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Amir (he/him) _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
In fairness, pipermail archives were always a bit shaky - on the occasions when an email's had to be removed from the archive previously, it's messed up the URLs of all the other emails in that month's archive.
But let's say it would be *nice* not to mess up the public archive URLs if feasible :-)
- d.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 21:19, Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
hmm, Links of archived discussions in private mailing lists are not as important as the ones in public lists, we definitely should migrate public mailing lists first and after that we can migrate any private mailing list that is okay with their links being broken (and then we remove those old archives to make it unaccessible to public). It probably means we need to keep mailman2 around for a while.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:38 PM AntiCompositeNumber < anticompositenumber@gmail.com> wrote:
I would agree that it would be a good solution, except for the next bullet in the same document: "The above mechanism won’t work for private archives since the archives are gated with password and without a Mailman 2 list, there is no password. You can however import them to Mailman 3."
Since keeping private lists private is also a requirement, that pretty much means rolling our own auth system on top of Mailman 3 or creating a bunch of HTTP redirect rules.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
According to the upgrade guide ( https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations
):
"If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep the HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to viewers that it is now a read-only archive, see this list https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/ for example)."
Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/
(with a
notice).
It means, the old archives will stay the same (and accessible/searchable with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there to
the
old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How will the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to construct a redirect farm?
- d.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber anticompositenumber@gmail.com wrote:
Glad to hear this is moving forward!
Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists, should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep that around.
ACN
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori zorandori4444@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello, this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
Best regards, Zoran Dori Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects E: zorandori4444@gmail.com W: kizule.tk I: iamkizule https://instagram.com/iamkizule _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Amir (he/him) _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Amir (he/him) _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
A sad side effect of the upgrade will probably be that listadmin[1] will break. Does anyone know an alternative?
[1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/listadmin/
Am So., 9. Aug. 2020 um 23:13 Uhr schrieb David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
In fairness, pipermail archives were always a bit shaky - on the occasions when an email's had to be removed from the archive previously, it's messed up the URLs of all the other emails in that month's archive.
But let's say it would be *nice* not to mess up the public archive URLs if feasible :-)
- d.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 21:19, Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
hmm, Links of archived discussions in private mailing lists are not as important as the ones in public lists, we definitely should migrate
public
mailing lists first and after that we can migrate any private mailing
list
that is okay with their links being broken (and then we remove those old archives to make it unaccessible to public). It probably means we need to keep mailman2 around for a while.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:38 PM AntiCompositeNumber < anticompositenumber@gmail.com> wrote:
I would agree that it would be a good solution, except for the next bullet in the same document: "The above mechanism won’t work for private archives since the archives are gated with password and without a Mailman 2 list, there is no password. You can however import them to Mailman 3."
Since keeping private lists private is also a requirement, that pretty much means rolling our own auth system on top of Mailman 3 or creating a bunch of HTTP redirect rules.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
According to the upgrade guide (
https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations
):
"If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep
the
HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to
viewers
that it is now a read-only archive, see this list https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/ for example)."
Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/
(with a
notice).
It means, the old archives will stay the same (and
accessible/searchable
with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there
to
the
old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How
will
the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to construct a redirect farm?
- d.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber anticompositenumber@gmail.com wrote:
Glad to hear this is moving forward!
Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists, should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to
keep
that around.
ACN
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori <
zorandori4444@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > Hello, > this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly"
function.
> > Best regards, > Zoran Dori > Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects > E: zorandori4444@gmail.com > W: kizule.tk > I: iamkizule https://instagram.com/iamkizule > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Amir (he/him) _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Amir (he/him) _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
I think it's because mailman3 doesn't need something like listadmin anymore. It provides a REST API that you can use to achieve the same functionality in a couple lines of code: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/r...
HTH
On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 1:30 AM Michael Schönitzer < michael.schoenitzer@wikimedia.de> wrote:
A sad side effect of the upgrade will probably be that listadmin[1] will break. Does anyone know an alternative?
[1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/listadmin/
Am So., 9. Aug. 2020 um 23:13 Uhr schrieb David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com
:
In fairness, pipermail archives were always a bit shaky - on the occasions when an email's had to be removed from the archive previously, it's messed up the URLs of all the other emails in that month's archive.
But let's say it would be *nice* not to mess up the public archive URLs if feasible :-)
- d.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 21:19, Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com
wrote:
hmm, Links of archived discussions in private mailing lists are not as important as the ones in public lists, we definitely should migrate
public
mailing lists first and after that we can migrate any private mailing
list
that is okay with their links being broken (and then we remove those
old
archives to make it unaccessible to public). It probably means we need
to
keep mailman2 around for a while.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:38 PM AntiCompositeNumber < anticompositenumber@gmail.com> wrote:
I would agree that it would be a good solution, except for the next bullet in the same document: "The above mechanism won’t work for private archives since the archives are gated with password and without a Mailman 2 list, there is no password. You can however import them to Mailman 3."
Since keeping private lists private is also a requirement, that
pretty
much means rolling our own auth system on top of Mailman 3 or
creating
a bunch of HTTP redirect rules.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
According to the upgrade guide (
https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations
):
"If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep
the
HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to
viewers
that it is now a read-only archive, see this list https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/ for example)."
Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/
(with a
notice).
It means, the old archives will stay the same (and
accessible/searchable
with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there
to
the
old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How
will
the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to construct a redirect farm?
- d.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber anticompositenumber@gmail.com wrote: > > Glad to hear this is moving forward! > > Keeping archive links working, for both public and private
lists,
> should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional
knowledge
> stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to
keep
> that around. > > ACN > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori <
zorandori4444@gmail.com>
wrote: > > > > Hello, > > this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly"
function.
> > > > Best regards, > > Zoran Dori > > Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects > > E: zorandori4444@gmail.com > > W: kizule.tk > > I: iamkizule https://instagram.com/iamkizule > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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