On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 8:22 AM, Aryeh Gregor Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com wrote:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_format_policy, although that never passed AFAIK -- but are probably not legal as long as we're only allowed to distribute under the GFDL.
While we are on this topic... I am wondering if (or when) we will allow ODF files to be uploaded to Wikipedia / Wikimedia.
I created a presentation for a conference a few months ago; I think some slides can be reused by others... I think it would be a great idea to allow collaboration in creating conference presentations!
Currently I can only upload the file as PDF, which is not designed for editing... I googled but could not find discussions on uploading ODF files -- which is why I still have not uploaded the ODF file to wikipedia!!
Rayson
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On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Rayson Ho raysonlogin@gmail.com wrote:
While we are on this topic... I am wondering if (or when) we will allow ODF files to be uploaded to Wikipedia / Wikimedia.
Never, I think. ODF files are just zip archives and you can embed every kind of shit in them and they'll still be valid ODF files - java applets, manipulated .jpg files exploiting various bugs, etc.
Marco
2009/5/6 Marco Schuster marco@harddisk.is-a-geek.org:
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Rayson Ho raysonlogin@gmail.com wrote:
While we are on this topic... I am wondering if (or when) we will allow ODF files to be uploaded to Wikipedia / Wikimedia.
Never, I think.
Yep. I think that this archive discussion from las November http://www.mail-archive.com/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/msg00064.html is relevant
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:14 AM, Nicolas Dumazet nicdumz@gmail.com wrote:
2009/5/6 Marco Schuster marco@harddisk.is-a-geek.org:
Never, I think.
Yep. I think that this archive discussion from las November http://www.mail-archive.com/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/msg00064.html is relevant
Thanks for replying, Nicolas & Marco... If that is the case, then that means we will never be able to upload "modifiable" presentations :(
The problem is that most presentations are in PPT format or in ODF format, and asking users to upload in a new editable format really limits the number of presentations that can be uploaded and shared.
In theory, we can write some code to scan the files (they are zip files, so it's not hard to find out what's inside). and limit what uploaders can put in the ODF files. I think XML and graphic files are valid file types. May be a few hundred lines of Perl or Python will do the job... provided that there are helper utilities are available :D
I guess I will check with the ODF guys. BTW, how likely will we enble ODF upload support if I can come up with such a filter??
Rayson
-- Nicolas Dumazet — NicDumZ [ nɪk.d̪ymz ]
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On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 3:30 AM, Rayson Ho raysonlogin@gmail.com wrote:
In theory, we can write some code to scan the files (they are zip files, so it's not hard to find out what's inside). and limit what uploaders can put in the ODF files. I think XML and graphic files are valid file types. May be a few hundred lines of Perl or Python will do the job... provided that there are helper utilities are available :D
I guess I will check with the ODF guys. BTW, how likely will we enble ODF upload support if I can come up with such a filter??
There's still the problem that most ODF uploads would be much more suitable as wiki pages. That makes them a lot easier to edit. Your presentation could be uploaded as a bunch of images that you'd put on the wiki page. Then each image could be edited separately, etc. The same goes double for documents that are mainly text. You have to download and reupload to edit, you need to install some special software to do the editing, there are no automatic diffs, . . .
BTW there is a bug report regarding this general issue: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2089 "Whitelist OASIS OpenDocument file format"
2009/5/6 Aryeh Gregor Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com:
There's still the problem that most ODF uploads would be much more suitable as wiki pages. That makes them a lot easier to edit.
Or maybe: it would be nice to have a MediaWiki extension that made collaboratively editing slide sets as simple as collaboratively editing wiki pages.
Your
presentation could be uploaded as a bunch of images that you'd put on the wiki page. Then each image could be edited separately, etc. The same goes double for documents that are mainly text. You have to download and reupload to edit, you need to install some special software to do the editing, there are no automatic diffs, . . .
I believe it would not be hugely difficult to make an extension to incorporate the S5 slide show format which is based on XHTML, CSS, and JavaScript. DokuWiki has a plugin for this and it's very neat. I wrote about this idea a few months ago. http://brianna.modernthings.org/article/185/wikiversity-interested-how-to-make-a-wiki-editable-slideshow
However, the most popular method of developing slides by far, is by Powerpoint/Keynote/OO.org Impress etc. I don't think there has been developed any good method for converting these kinds of slide sets to the S5 format or a similar format. So while it may be true that "they should just be wiki pages", in reality that doesn't really work. In the absence of good format conversion methods, it makes more sense to aim for collaborative editing of the existing popular style of creating slides.
And in the absence of THAT, it would be nice if we could at least upload ODFs so we can download them and edit them manually (a la SVGs). Being stuck with PDFs only is the worst of all situations.
Even if slide sets are not used much directly by the projects (or is it just not YET because there is no good method for sharing them?), they are still extremely useful to share in the "meta-organisation" and for promoting the projects. And to my mind that kind of material is also important to support.
cheers Brianna
There's still the problem that most ODF uploads would be much more suitable as wiki pages. That makes them a lot easier to edit.
Or maybe: it would be nice to have a MediaWiki extension that made collaboratively editing slide sets as simple as collaboratively editing wiki pages.
This would be awesome, especially if they were exportable as slides using the Collections extension.
However, the most popular method of developing slides by far, is by Powerpoint/Keynote/OO.org Impress etc. I don't think there has been developed any good method for converting these kinds of slide sets to the S5 format or a similar format. So while it may be true that "they should just be wiki pages", in reality that doesn't really work. In the absence of good format conversion methods, it makes more sense to aim for collaborative editing of the existing popular style of creating slides.
And in the absence of THAT, it would be nice if we could at least upload ODFs so we can download them and edit them manually (a la SVGs). Being stuck with PDFs only is the worst of all situations.
Maybe this will be less of an issue once the Open Office PDF import extension is more complete?
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/pdfimport
V/r,
Ryan Lane
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Brianna Laugher brianna.laugher@gmail.comwrote:
However, the most popular method of developing slides by far, is by Powerpoint/Keynote/OO.org Impress etc. I don't think there has been developed any good method for converting these kinds of slide sets to the S5 format or a similar format. So while it may be true that "they should just be wiki pages", in reality that doesn't really work. In the absence of good format conversion methods, it makes more sense to aim for collaborative editing of the existing popular style of creating slides.
another option is to make a new "skin" for the wiki, that is much like a "web slideshow" viewer. And having a "master page" that include the frames (so you can use frames from a different slideshow).
pros: - use text - simple - it can reuse frames - editable with a browser
cons: - It don't use the popular Microsoft Office [tm] software - not wysiwig
Tei wrote:
another option is to make a new "skin" for the wiki, that is much like a "web slideshow" viewer. And having a "master page" that include the frames (so you can use frames from a different slideshow).
Someone already made an extension doing exactly that (although I don't remember whom).
El 5/5/09 11:37 PM, Rayson Ho escribió:
While we are on this topic... I am wondering if (or when) we will allow ODF files to be uploaded to Wikipedia / Wikimedia.
I created a presentation for a conference a few months ago; I think some slides can be reused by others... I think it would be a great idea to allow collaboration in creating conference presentations!
Currently I can only upload the file as PDF, which is not designed for editing... I googled but could not find discussions on uploading ODF files -- which is why I still have not uploaded the ODF file to wikipedia!!
Things like presentations probably belong at meta.wikimedia.org, not on the general Wikipedias and other project wikis. Though there is some call for Wikiversity and such I think...
I believe we might want to add some general security checks for ZIP-based formats before re-adding them to open public wikis. (Running things through clamav wouldn't hurt, I imagine. :) There's some support in there somewhere I think, we'll need to poke at it...)
-- brion
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