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Od: wikitech-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org Komu: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Datum: 31.12.2008 06:33 Předmět: Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 65, Issue 40
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Subpage titles (Remember the dot) 2. Re: Anchors haven't id attribute (Platonides) 3. Re: Separating section anchors from other IDs (was: Anchors haven't id attribute) (Charlotte Webb) 4. Re: Subpage titles (Aryeh Gregor) 5. Re: Subpage titles (Platonides) 6. Re: Separating section anchors from other IDs (was: Anchors haven't id attribute) (Aryeh Gregor) 7. Re: Subpage titles (Aryeh Gregor) 8. Re: Subpage titles (Michael J. Walsh) 9. Re: Subpage titles (Aryeh Gregor) 10. Re: Subpage titles (Ilmari Karonen) 11. Re: Subpage titles (Daniel Friesen)
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:45:55 -0700 From: "Remember the dot" rememberthedot@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 17aa57b60812292245i40d888a8xcde6bfe6d8b7cc3f@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Soxred93 soxred93@gmail.com wrote:
Hopefully, if the new DISPLAYTITLE functionality goes into effect, the effect of this can be done.
What new DISPLAYTITLE functionality? Is this separate from https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12998 ?
-- Remember the dot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Remember_the_dot
Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:23:09 +0100 From: Platonides Platonides@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Anchors haven't id attribute To: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: gjdhtd$pg5$1@ger.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Aryeh Gregor wrote:
the idea of "broken code must render anyway" is riped. It must die, a painfull dead, because is the father and mother of the tag soup, that is more vile than the Borg and Microsoft *combined*
Browser vendors are not willing to remove support for it, because it would break old websites. HTML5 says broken code is invalid, but aims to standardize in great detail how browsers should render it anyway, instead of demanding (impractically) that they throw up their arms and die like XHTML insists on. A "feature" of XHTML that practically everyone skips in practice by serving it as text/html.
Even if you want to use it, "some browsers" don't support it so you end with ugly user-agent sniffing hacks.
Message: 3 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:17:17 -0600 From: "Charlotte Webb" charlottethewebb@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Separating section anchors from other IDs (was: Anchors haven't id attribute) To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 4286fc440812300717o323c35cao7871a13204ddd9b0@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 12/28/08, Aryeh Gregor Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com wrote:
Now, how about figuring out how to get manually-specified id's like <span id="foo"> to be unique? :)
Could just number them sequentially like we do the section headings.
...or try to convince the creators of id="stub" templates that there's something wrong with giving them all the same id (good luck with that, they wouldn't listen to me).
?C.W.
Message: 4 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:30:24 -0500 From: "Aryeh Gregor" Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 7c2a12e20812300630n6eaefb74s7f1f73992eda692c@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 9:59 PM, K. Peachey p858snake@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Maybe have a little button in the right/opposite corner that you click and uses js magic to copy it to the clipboard maybe?
That's just not intuitive. People are going to try copying it and it won't work.
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Daniel Friesen dan_the_man@telus.net wrote:
Traditionally in cases where the title does not actually depict the title itself properly I believe the idea has been to add some sort of "Full title: ..." to the subtitle.
This is ugly and confusing, and people still are going to try copying it directly and it won't work.
I think that 301ing pages with " ? " in their title to pages with "/" is the best way here, for Wikisource and other projects that want prettier subpage display for deeply nested subpages (probably not for Wikipedia, although you can make an argument for consistency).
Message: 5 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:33:10 +0100 From: Platonides Platonides@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles To: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: gje42m$hct$1@ger.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Aryeh Gregor wrote:
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 9:59 PM, K. Peachey p858snake@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Maybe have a little button in the right/opposite corner that you click and uses js magic to copy it to the clipboard maybe?
That's just not intuitive. People are going to try copying it and it won't work.
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Daniel Friesen dan_the_man@telus.net wrote:
Traditionally in cases where the title does not actually depict the title itself properly I believe the idea has been to add some sort of "Full title: ..." to the subtitle.
This is ugly and confusing, and people still are going to try copying it directly and it won't work.
I think that 301ing pages with " ? " in their title to pages with "/" is the best way here, for Wikisource and other projects that want prettier subpage display for deeply nested subpages (probably not for Wikipedia, although you can make an argument for consistency).
What about providing " ? " as a image with alt="/" ?
Message: 6 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:09:52 -0500 From: "Aryeh Gregor" Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Separating section anchors from other IDs (was: Anchors haven't id attribute) To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 7c2a12e20812301409m2c757fd9ta2ba62e6a02833d4@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Charlotte Webb charlottethewebb@gmail.com wrote:
Could just number them sequentially like we do the section headings.
Alternatively, we could strip them and add an HTML comment -- we need to have some id for the extra section headings, because we need to link to them automatically, but that seems to be of dubious benefit for user-supplied id's. If they're using them for anything, their use (e.g., CSS rule, getElementById()) will almost certainly fail if we modify the id in any way, so no point in keeping it at all.
...or try to convince the creators of id="stub" templates that there's something wrong with giving them all the same id (good luck with that, they wouldn't listen to me).
Well, if we wanted to, telling them "in one week it will stop working" should do it. Or just having a sysop there do it unilaterally with that as edit summary. I don't know if we want to, though. It would be disruptive for questionable benefit. As I said, if we do this we'd have to do a dry run for a while and only log conflicts, and deal with all the major problem-causers before enabling it for real.
Message: 7 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:13:40 -0500 From: "Aryeh Gregor" Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 7c2a12e20812301413p71a44d1t5781e568e4736b38@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Platonides Platonides@gmail.com wrote:
What about providing " ? " as a image with alt="/" ?
That's just horribly ugly when the other solution would be simple enough.
Can we rely on the fact that images are copy-pasted as their alt
text in all browsers?
Message: 8 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:01:19 +0000 From: "Michael J. Walsh" michaelj.walsh@oceanfree.net Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 868228FD-778C-487F-B86F-CD7C8D741BAC@oceanfree.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
On 30 Dec 2008, at 22:13, Aryeh Gregor wrote:
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Platonides Platonides@gmail.com wrote:
What about providing " ? " as a image with alt="/" ?
- That's just horribly ugly when the other solution would be
simple enough.
- Can we rely on the fact that images are copy-pasted as their alt
text in all browsers
What about programming the software to replace " ? " in links with "/" before submitting to the database or previewing the page.
Message: 9 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:46:33 -0500 From: "Aryeh Gregor" Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 7c2a12e20812301746hcc595fcwe2c9cc587539342c@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Michael J. Walsh michaelj.walsh@oceanfree.net wrote:
What about programming the software to replace " ? " in links with "/" before submitting to the database or previewing the page.
More pre-save transforms? We should probably be reducing the number, not increasing them. This one has more merit than pipe tricks, though. It's a possibility. It would probably be simpler to do the 301, though.
Message: 10 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 05:03:18 +0200 From: Ilmari Karonen nospam@vyznev.net Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 495AE0F6.6010906@vyznev.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
Aryeh Gregor wrote:
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Michael J. Walsh michaelj.walsh@oceanfree.net wrote:
What about programming the software to replace " ? " in links with "/" before submitting to the database or previewing the page.
More pre-save transforms? We should probably be reducing the number, not increasing them. This one has more merit than pipe tricks, though. It's a possibility. It would probably be simpler to do the 301, though.
If not a PST, it would pretty much have to be done in title normalization. For one thing, we'd need it for link existence checks.
But I have a simpler suggestion: why not display the title just like we do now, but use CSS to add some padding around the slashes and to render everything up to the last slash in smaller font on a separate line? Should be easy enough to do with just a couple of simple <span> tags, and be perfectly cut-and-pasteable. Granted, it means sticking with "/" as the delimiter instead of "?", but I wouldn't think that'd be a blocking issue.
-- Ilmari Karonen
Message: 11 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:32:28 -0800 From: Daniel Friesen dan_the_man@telus.net Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles To: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: gjf05f$iqm$1@ger.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
Back on the image note..... Why alt? it doesn't have to be alt, a background image should be suitable. Break up a title by / wrap each section in a span and place proper padding on them -- ;) if you want to do something real nice, turn everything but the last portion into a link -- and replace every / by a span containing / with display: none; and followed by an empty span with a background image.
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) ~Profile/Portfolio: http://nadir-seen-fire.com -The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com) --It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com) --The ElectronicMe project (http://electronic-me.org) -Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG) --Animepedia (http://anime.wikia.com) --Narutopedia (http://naruto.wikia.com)
Ilmari Karonen wrote:
Aryeh Gregor wrote:
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Michael J. Walsh michaelj.walsh@oceanfree.net wrote:
What about programming the software to replace " ? " in links with "/" before submitting to the database or previewing the page.
More pre-save transforms? We should probably be reducing the number, not increasing them. This one has more merit than pipe tricks, though. It's a possibility. It would probably be simpler to do the 301, though.
If not a PST, it would pretty much have to be done in title normalization. For one thing, we'd need it for link existence checks.
But I have a simpler suggestion: why not display the title just like we do now, but use CSS to add some padding around the slashes and to render everything up to the last slash in smaller font on a separate line? Should be easy enough to do with just a couple of simple <span> tags, and be perfectly cut-and-pasteable. Granted, it means sticking with "/" as the delimiter instead of "?", but I wouldn't think that'd be a blocking issue.
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