Hi all,
Recently, in order to make a rather small user interface change (see bug #42215), our team needed to replace MediaWiki:Welcomecreation with a new message, MediaWiki:Welcomecreation-msg.
The new message contains all of the things MediaWiki normally inserts in that message, and simply changes the header text. Simple enough.
My question here is... Is there a best practice for advertising changes to MediaWiki messages like these?
This message, which is given to users once after they register, is sometimes customized. We can go look and see which wikis have written custom content, and inform them they need to migrate it to the new message. But I was wondering if others have encountered this problem, and how they dealt with it.
At the least, I think we should post at the closest equivalent to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MediaWiki_messages for each wiki. Typically, this might be the local version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) or just http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump (depending how big the wiki is). A bot should be able to deliver this message to all the pages, once the list is in place.
Ideally, we'll give them enough time to prepare, and provide a link for central feedback (e.g. a bugzilla).
Matt Flaschen
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.orgwrote:
Hi all,
Recently, in order to make a rather small user interface change (see bug #42215), our team needed to replace MediaWiki:Welcomecreation with a new message, MediaWiki:Welcomecreation-msg.
The new message contains all of the things MediaWiki normally inserts in that message, and simply changes the header text. Simple enough.
My question here is... Is there a best practice for advertising changes to MediaWiki messages like these?
This message, which is given to users once after they register, is sometimes customized. We can go look and see which wikis have written custom content, and inform them they need to migrate it to the new message. But I was wondering if others have encountered this problem, and how they dealt with it.
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.orgwrote:
Typically, this might be the local version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) or just http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump (depending how big the wiki is). A bot should be able to deliver this message to all the pages, once the list is in place.
Yeah, there is EdwardsBot which will blast all the Village Pumps for us, and I've written/delivered messages myself on a smaller scale. It's just that the only time I've done this in the past was for new features entirely, usually an extension. Using the global message delivery system for a single MediaWiki message change feels like a bit like overkill, which is why asked about precedent. :)
Steven
Good to know.
Yeah, if there's a required action item (you *have* to do this) for each wiki, no matter how brief the action, I think it's generally worth the blast.
Matt Flaschen
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:16 PM, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Matthew Flaschen <mflaschen@wikimedia.org
wrote:
Typically, this might be the local version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) or just http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump (depending how big
the
wiki is). A bot should be able to deliver this message to all the pages, once the list is in place.
Yeah, there is EdwardsBot which will blast all the Village Pumps for us, and I've written/delivered messages myself on a smaller scale. It's just that the only time I've done this in the past was for new features entirely, usually an extension. Using the global message delivery system for a single MediaWiki message change feels like a bit like overkill, which is why asked about precedent. :)
Steven _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hoi, How many Wikipedias exist .... 280+ ... The English Wikipedia may be the biggest and baddest but you cannot infer from this that its message is the same message in use everywhere.
When you want to change a default message, the message is localised for general consumption on translatewiki.net. When local policy means that the message needs a further adaptation it is done on the local Wiki. If anything, the English Wikipedia and its community is not involved in the business of localisation for general use and consequenly they are unlikely to be the best source for any message that is to be of global use. Thanks, GerardM
On 4 December 2012 04:09, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org wrote:
At the least, I think we should post at the closest equivalent to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MediaWiki_messages for each wiki. Typically, this might be the local version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) or just http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump (depending how big the wiki is). A bot should be able to deliver this message to all the pages, once the list is in place.
Ideally, we'll give them enough time to prepare, and provide a link for central feedback (e.g. a bugzilla).
Matt Flaschen
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Steven Walling <swalling@wikimedia.org
wrote:
Hi all,
Recently, in order to make a rather small user interface change (see bug #42215), our team needed to replace MediaWiki:Welcomecreation with a new message, MediaWiki:Welcomecreation-msg.
The new message contains all of the things MediaWiki normally inserts in that message, and simply changes the header text. Simple enough.
My question here is... Is there a best practice for advertising changes
to
MediaWiki messages like these?
This message, which is given to users once after they register, is sometimes customized. We can go look and see which wikis have written custom content, and inform them they need to migrate it to the new
message.
But I was wondering if others have encountered this problem, and how they dealt with it.
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 12/04/2012 03:33 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, How many Wikipedias exist .... 280+ ... The English Wikipedia may be the biggest and baddest but you cannot infer from this that its message is the same message in use everywhere.
When you want to change a default message, the message is localised for general consumption on translatewiki.net. When local policy means that the message needs a further adaptation it is done on the local Wiki.
I think there was a miscommunication. I said "the closest equivalent to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MediaWiki_messages for each wiki"
In other words, on es, it might be http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project:Mensajes_de_Mediawiki or whatever the case is in reality.
I completely agree every wiki should be notified, and do their own adaptation if needed. I wasn't saying en should have any special treatment, just using it as a familiar example.
Matt Flaschen
Bug 42215[1] discussed this particular change, and I sought the advice of the mediawiki-i18n list about it (the consensus was a new message rather than fiddling with the semantics of the old one). But I don't think mediawiki-i18n list is involved in per-wiki message changes, I assume it's something an admin does.
If a wiki hasn't overridden the welcomecreation message then there's nothing to do except check to see if the default messages have been translated into its language (55 & 64 translations so far).[3]
Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
We can go look and see which wikis have written custom content, and inform them they need to migrate it to the new message.
I wrote a little script last night to check for the existence of the old and new messages, and it seems there are 205 wikis that did override welcomecreation (!!?), so ideally someone should find the [[Wikipedia:MediaWiki messages]] or [[Village pump (technical)]] page for those 205 wikis, or otherwise contact their admins. The list of wiki messages is at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:S_Page_%28WMF%29/welcomecreation_messages
Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org wrote:
Yeah, if there's a required action item (you *have* to do this) for each wiki, no matter how brief the action, I think it's generally worth the blast.
My instructions are in the parent of the list of wikis, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:S_Page_%28WMF%29
I'm curious if any of those 205 wikis are doing inventive "Welcome aboard, now read a tutorial/say hi/fix a page/play in the sandbox" things. It's an area our team (Editor Engagement Experiments) cares about.
Thanks for your insights.
[1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42215 [2] https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translations&message=Med... [3] Translatewiki suggests * the new "Welcome, $1!" title message welcomeuser has been translated into 64 languages[4] * the new "Your account has been created. \ Do not forget to change your <preferences>" has been translated into 55 languages[5].
[4] https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ATranslations&message=W... [5] https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ATranslations&message=W...
-- =S Page software engineer on E3
Writing to village pumps is sometimes useless, not everybody looks at them so you still rely on someone to forward the message to its actual consumers. If there's a specific affected page, as in this case, you're lucky because you can write on its talk. On big wikis people necessarily use watchlist to keep track of discussions they're interested to, and on small wikis RecentChanges will suffice to alert most active users. So, as already suggested on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_message_delivery/Instructions , 1) Write on mediawiki.org an announcement clarifying what needs doing, 2) make it a translatable page, 3) take the distribution list and point all projects to MediaWiki_talk:Welcomecreation, 4) send a simple two-lines alert pointing to the mw.o page and inviting users to translate and reply there.
Nemo
On 12/04/2012 03:59 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
Writing to village pumps is sometimes useless, not everybody looks at them so you still rely on someone to forward the message to its actual consumers. If there's a specific affected page, as in this case, you're lucky because you can write on its talk. On big wikis people necessarily use watchlist to keep track of discussions they're interested to, and on small wikis RecentChanges will suffice to alert most active users. So, as already suggested on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_message_delivery/Instructions ,
Those instructions are not specifically about MediaWiki messages, nor does it say not to use village pumps.
I think in general, more people will be monitoring the appropriate village pump than the exact interface talk page. Once people see it on the pump, they can move to the talk page.
Matt Flaschen
Yes, the "as already suggested" referred to the translatable message points, not the the part before it. Matt, there's no such a thing as "the appropriate village pump" for everything everywhere. You used as an example [[w:en:Wikipedia:MediaWiki messages]], too bad that only nl.wiki has something like that; and even on en.wiki it has only 87 watchers compared to 38 for the specific MediaWiki:Welcomecreation. You have to reach people who did or discussed a customization of the message/who follow system message changes, so post a message where they'll see it by checking RC/watchlist rather than digging kB of village pumps. I just sent a message about [[MediaWiki:Pageinfo-footer]] this morning (on its very obscure talk) and I had already good feedback from 3 wikis.
Nemo
2012/12/4 Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org:
Hi all,
Recently, in order to make a rather small user interface change (see bug #42215), our team needed to replace MediaWiki:Welcomecreation with a new message, MediaWiki:Welcomecreation-msg.
The new message contains all of the things MediaWiki normally inserts in that message, and simply changes the header text. Simple enough.
My question here is... Is there a best practice for advertising changes to MediaWiki messages like these?
This message, which is given to users once after they register, is sometimes customized. We can go look and see which wikis have written custom content, and inform them they need to migrate it to the new message. But I was wondering if others have encountered this problem, and how they dealt with it.
Hi Steven,
In general, it rarely takes more than a day for a message to propagate to translatewiki.net after merging the Gerrit change that adds it. The people who frequently translate there and keep their languages' stats at 100% will see it and translate it very quickly. That's several dozens of languages. Do make sure that you explain the reasoning behind the message in the qqq documentation.
But increasing visibility and explaining the changes beyond that is a good thing, too. What you did with PostEdit was quite good - write a page about it on meta, make it translatable, use TranslationNotifications to advertise it. Remind people to translate it in translatewiki.net, too.
Also, use the wikitech-ambassadors list. My impressions is that it's gradually gaining steam after being dormant for a while. (Mention that list in the translatable page that you write, with a link to clear subscription instructions.)
Hope it helps.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:10 AM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
Also, use the wikitech-ambassadors list. My impressions is that it's gradually gaining steam after being dormant for a while. (Mention that list in the translatable page that you write, with a link to clear subscription instructions.)
Great suggestion Amir, thank you.
Steven
Since people keep asking me for editing rights on wikitech, I've decided to run for bureaucratship (so that I can actually grant editing rights). Please join the heated discussion at: http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Request_for_adminship#Requests_for_bureau...
Ryan Kaldari
Done.
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
Done.
We did not let the Wikitech community speak ;-)
Per the page:
"Requests should be listed here for at least seven days; bureaucrats should only close after this minimum time. Requests may be extended, or put on hold by bureaucrats, pending decision or finding of consensus."
I have very tough questions that need answering before I can support this candidate.
-Chad
On 04/12/12 20:43, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
Since people keep asking me for editing rights on wikitech, I've decided to run for bureaucratship (so that I can actually grant editing rights). Please join the heated discussion at: http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Request_for_adminship#Requests_for_bureau...
Ryan Kaldari
I wasn't even aware such page existed. Although it's not too strange, given that you created it a just few months ago.
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
Since people keep asking me for editing rights on wikitech, I've decided to run for bureaucratship (so that I can actually grant editing rights). Please join the heated discussion at: http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Request_for_adminship#Requests_for_bureau...
err, nothing against you being a crat but a better solution would be to allow all sysops to grant editing rights.
-Jeremy
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