Hi G�rard.

I disagree with you on one point.

You say "The fact that dictionary information has no place in Wikipedia is also an established and respected fact."

It is not as true as you seem to imply. It is roughly what is done, but it is not so widely established. I think this might be a very cultural issue :-) The french wikipedia long hesitated, and I would say some users still consider the encyclopedia and the dictionary content may be available in one common place. I have personnaly no problem with an encyclopedic article containing some dictionary content, and when I see some I certainly do not remove it. However, I recognise that some dictionary articles have no encyclopedic content, so are not so welcome in the encyclopedia. Hence, it is best that there is a dictionnary :-)

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For the other issues you mention, I strongly agree we have a serious problem of communication between projects. I do not mean human communication (though...) but just plain communication between information.

Within the dictionary, there is no possibility to access automatically and directly to the same article in other languages. Within wikipedia, there is no possibility to access automatically and directly to wiktionnary. Within wikipedia, there is no possibility to access automatically and directly to wikibooks (this would be especially useful for wikibooks). Etc...

We patch the best we can by putting links between our projects as external links, as if each project was independant, while it should NOT be independant, but an interconnected network. This is exactly what I was saying about food and recipees just 3 days ago, we are here not only to create information, but also to make it available. Information stored, but not available proeminently within a couple of click is LOST. It may exist somewhere, but it is of little use.

And I find extremely miserable that some of us try to put links to interconnect projects, while others are busy deleting those links (typical example are recipees being transwikies, then links to recipees being removed).

Consider the fugu.

Dictionnary : The fugu is as a poisonous fish, being used as food, especially in Japan, after poisonous organs have been removed. Add pronounciation. * Link to translations in other languages (other wiktionaries) * Link to recipee of fugu (link to wikibooks) * Link to biological, environnemental and cultural background (link to encyclopedia)

Wikipedia : Full article about the fish itself. Background on fugu cultural weight. Who died eating it. Who are the most famous chef preparing fugu. Decoration. Delicacy etc... * Link to other articles in other languages for more information (other wikipedias) * Link to have pronounciation and exact writing in japanese (link to wiktionnary) * Link to recipees (link to wikibooks) * Link for more biological information (link to Wikispecies) * Link to wikinews (last minute : Bush mistakenly poisonned in a japanese restaurant ! )

Wikibooks : List of recipees and pictures * Link to short descriptive of the fish (wiktionnary) * Link to biological, environnemental and cultural background (Wikipedia) * Link to movie showing how big chef prepare the fish (Wikicommons)

Etc...

Contrary to languages, I presume one article in one project should only lead to one article in another project. So, on top of all international links, for each article of each project, there should be the possibility to link to an "sister article" in any other project we have. A nice way to do this would be to add to the tool bar (well, say, the area where interlanguage links are displayed), a little icon of the sister project. The click on the icon would lead to the appropriate page.

Then the wikipedia article on Fugu would display *all international links, plus *a little book icon (to represent wiktionary), *plus a little pan (to represent wikibooks) *plus a little bee (to represent wikispecies) (or whatever icons)

It would look good, using small graphics would help readers identify links for navigation from toolbar links, and it would be much useful.

It was several time discussed that international links had nothing to do in the body of the article. Nor should categories. Nor should probably interproject links.

What about then working on a new special area, which would provide a sort of form, with Wiktionary : "empty space to put the name of the article in wiktionary" Wikibooks : "empty space to put the name of the article in wikibooks" Wikispecies : "empty space to put the name of the article in wikispecies" And an area for all the internlinks ?

No ?

Anthere

Gerard Meijssen gerardm@myrealbox.com wrote: Hoi, There is an acrimonious discussion on nl:wikipedia. This has to do with some people who consider wiktionary to be external to wikipedia and, they consider the information that a dictionary supplies to be of no additional value to wikipedia.

I want to diffuse this situation and I need the help from the developpers for that. The content of other wikipedia's can be found by clicking on the left hand side under "in other languages". I would like a method that allows us to link to the wiktionary article in that general area.

*This will remove any standard references to wiktionary from the wikipedia article itself. *The content of a sister article in another wikipedia should (theoretically) not add information to a wikipedia article as, it should only present the information in another language. As the referal to other wikipedia's is an established fact, the inclusion in that space of wiktionary information should not be a problem as wiktionary DOES add relevant information to the wikipedia article (translations, etymology, pronounciation etc) * Technically, the link requires a parameter as some wiktionaries do not have first character capitalisation.

The link from Wiktionary to Wikipedia is not a problem; here it is accepted that encyclopedic information should find its way in Wikipedia. The fact that dictionary information has no place in Wikipedia is also an established and respected fact.

Thanks, GerardM

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