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Re: [Wikitech-l] Shell requests...

John Vandenberg

18 May 2011 18 May '11

midnight

from foundation-l thread "[Fwd: Re: Do WMF want enwp.org?]" On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:27 PM, Casey Brown <lists(a)caseybrown.org> wrote:

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On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote:

Of course unless someone finds a way to redirect en.wikipedia.org/Example to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example .

"Did you mean to type http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example? You will be automatically redirected there in five seconds." :-) It already redirects there, though we don't want to advertise that we have a "link shortener" because the 404 page redirects.

Is there a good reason for us to always include the '/wiki/' in the URL? Removing the prefix would save five characters, and I'm guessing that it would also save a measurable amount of traffic serving 5KB 404 pages. Is there something else on these virtual hosts other than a few regexes which are extremely unlikely to be used as page names (i.e. \/w\/.*\.php). -- John Vandenberg

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Marco Schuster

18 May 18 May

1:01 a.m.

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 2:00 AM, John Vandenberg <jayvdb(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Is there something else on these virtual hosts other than a few regexes which are extremely unlikely to be used as page names (i.e. \/w\/.*\.php).

Anything beginning with /w/ must be disallowed as a page title for this to work. Marco

Daniel Friesen

1:12 a.m.

On 11-05-17 06:01 PM, Marco Schuster wrote:

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On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 2:00 AM, John Vandenberg <jayvdb(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Is there something else on these virtual hosts other than a few regexes which are extremely unlikely to be used as page names (i.e. \/w\/.*\.php).

Anything beginning with /w/ must be disallowed as a page title for this to work. Marco

http://en.wikipedia.org/robots.txt and http://en.wikipedia.org/Robots.txt would be very amusing. ^_^ And I suppose http://en.wikipedia.org/.htaccess too. And just wait till .well-known gets used in enough open apis to both have an article, and have something in MediaWiki that uses it. Which reminds me... it would be nice if OEmbed providers supported a .well-known like oexchange recommends. ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

MZMcBride

4:25 a.m.

John Vandenberg wrote:

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from foundation-l thread "[Fwd: Re: Do WMF want enwp.org?]" On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:27 PM, Casey Brown <lists(a)caseybrown.org> wrote:

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote:

Of course unless someone finds a way to redirect en.wikipedia.org/Example to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example .

Gerard Meijssen

4:47 a.m.

Hoi, Does that mean that you want to have something else in stead of "view" in each language ? Thanks, GerardM On 18 May 2011 06:25, MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com> wrote:

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John Vandenberg wrote:

from foundation-l thread "[Fwd: Re: Do WMF want enwp.org?]" On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:27 PM, Casey Brown <lists(a)caseybrown.org>

wrote:

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote:

Of course unless someone finds a way to redirect en.wikipedia.org/Example to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example .

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Wiki_in_site_root_directory Changing the URL structure is a big deal. There's been discussion about switching "/wiki/" to "/view/" if $wgActionPaths are implemented on Wikimedia wikis at some point, but I don't think putting article titles in the root directory is ever going to happen. MZMcBride _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Huib Laurens

4:58 a.m.

Hi, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Wiki_in_site_root_directory is not related right? We aren't going to run the wiki in the root, that will stay in /w/ we are only looking for a shorter url if I'm correct. 2011/5/18 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>

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Hoi, Does that mean that you want to have something else in stead of "view" in each language ? Thanks, GerardM On 18 May 2011 06:25, MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com> wrote:

John Vandenberg wrote:

from foundation-l thread "[Fwd: Re: Do WMF want enwp.org?]" On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:27 PM, Casey Brown <lists(a)caseybrown.org>

wrote: >> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Lodewijk <

lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>

>> wrote: >>> Of course >>> unless someone finds a way to redirect en.wikipedia.org/Example to >>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example . >> >> "Did you mean to type http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example? You will >> be automatically redirected there in five seconds." >> >> :-) >> >> It already redirects there, though we don't want to advertise that we >> have a "link shortener" because the 404 page redirects. > > Is there a good reason for us to always include the '/wiki/' in the

URL?

Removing the prefix would save five characters, and I'm guessing that it would also save a measurable amount of traffic serving 5KB 404 pages. Is there something else on these virtual hosts other than a few regexes which are extremely unlikely to be used as page names (i.e. \/w\/.*\.php).

the root directory is ever going to happen. MZMcBride _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

-- Kind regards, Huib Laurens WickedWay.nl Webhosting the wicked way.

MZMcBride

4:23 p.m.

Huib Laurens wrote:

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http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Wiki_in_site_root_directory is not related right? We aren't going to run the wiki in the root, that will stay in /w/ we are only looking for a shorter url if I'm correct.

It's mostly related. It doesn't really matter where your physical files are, short URLs are implemented through rewrite rules. If you rewrite into the root directory, you cause problems with files such as "favicon.ico" and "robots.txt". In general, it's just considered poor form and the "savings" (5 bytes in the URL bar) aren't worth the headache. Having a clean namespace, as Paul Houle suggests, is the way to go. MZMcBride

Roan Kattouw

5:50 p.m.

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Hoi, Does that mean that you want to have something else in stead of "view" in each language ?

Well at least that's not implemented right now. This is basically about translating stuff like /w/index.php?title=Foo&action=edit to /edit/Foo , and it so happens 'view' is the default value for the &action= parameter. And as you probably know stuff like action=edit isn't localized either. Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

Amir E. Aharoni

5:57 p.m.

2011/5/18 Roan Kattouw <roan.kattouw(a)gmail.com>om>:

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On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hoi, Does that mean that you want to have something else in stead of "view" in each language ?

Localizing URLs would be overkill, especially for languages which have any non-ASCII characters. That is, nearly all the languages of the world. The current hell with URL-encoded article names is more than enough. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore

Dmitriy Sintsov

5:31 a.m.

* John Vandenberg <jayvdb(a)gmail.com> [Wed, 18 May 2011 10:00:45 +1000]:

...

Is there a good reason for us to always include the '/wiki/' in the

URL?

...

With many wiki farms it would be nice to use /yourlangcode/index.php path prefix rather than yourlangcode.my.domain in domain name. Such setup is possible, however is not quickly automated (like "instant commons"). One should dig that manually. Dmitriy

Ashar Voultoiz

4:17 p.m.

On 18/05/11 07:31, Dmitriy Sintsov wrote:

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An example would be http://wikitravel.org/ It is not a wanted feature for the WMF cluster which wants to redirect some languages/projects pairs to different clusters. hi.wikipedia.org (Hindi), could be made to points to an Indian Cluster ja.wikipedia.org (Japanese) ... to an Asian cluster. So we actually want different domains :b -- Ashar Voultoiz

Dmitriy Sintsov

4:54 p.m.

On 18.05.2011 20:17, Ashar Voultoiz wrote:

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On 18/05/11 07:31, Dmitriy Sintsov wrote:

An example would be http://wikitravel.org/

I know that site. I also had my own similar farm with path-based interlanguage links.

...

It is not a wanted feature for the WMF cluster which wants to redirect some languages/projects pairs to different clusters. hi.wikipedia.org (Hindi), could be made to points to an Indian Cluster ja.wikipedia.org (Japanese) ... to an Asian cluster. So we actually want different domains :b

Is a cluster redirect for URI path ever possible? If so, how much slower would it work? Ordinary load balancing should work for one DNS-name small sites. I never know the implications of running huge Wikipedia. One domain has one advantage, usually the bigger the site is, the higher ranks it has (of course, in case the information is not junk). I guess Wikipedia counts not like small sities. Using action names instead of /wiki/ also is a great idea. /wiki/ looks a bit redundant. Dmitriy

Roan Kattouw

5:56 p.m.

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Ashar Voultoiz <hashar+wmf(a)free.fr> wrote:

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That's not how we load balance stuff right now. All the *.wikipedia.org and *.wikiwhatever.org domains are CNAMEs all pointing to text.wikimedia.org , which in turn is a CNAME for either text.pmtpa.wikimedia.org or text.esams.wikimedia.org , depending on your geographical location (or, to be more precise, the location of the DNS server you're using). In other words, we don't load balance based on a wiki's language, but on the user's location. Someone visiting de.wikipedia.org while in Japan hits the Tampa cluster, and someone visiting ja.wikipedia.org while in France hits the Amsterdam cluster. In fact, when British and American users view en.wikipedia.org, they view the same wiki through different clusters. Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

Paul Houle

12:36 p.m.

On 5/17/2011 8:00 PM, John Vandenberg wrote:

...

I think you should always keep control of your top-level namespace on a web server, because once you lose control of it you've got no control. If, someday, Wikipedia wants to add some new URLs, it's free to do that because they didn't let every Tom, Dick and Harry pollute the global namespace. This is particularly important if you want to use third-party software of some kind. The worst thing you can do is install Wordpress, Drupal or something like that in a top-level directory, because then you're stuck. If you install it in a subdirectory, you're always free to install something else in another subdirectory and use it in parallel. If you want to switch to a different CMS, you can put it in a new directory, and then build a 301 redirect machine that keeps all of your links working.

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11 participants

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participants (11)

Amir E. Aharoni
Ashar Voultoiz
Daniel Friesen
Dmitriy Sintsov
Gerard Meijssen
Huib Laurens
John Vandenberg
Marco Schuster
MZMcBride
Paul Houle
Roan Kattouw