Hiho,
the flagged Revisions extension is nearing completion, thanks to Joerg Baach and particular Aaron Schulz: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/. The thing we are having the most trouble is the GUI, which uses CSS. Here, help would be most appreciated. So, if anybody here would like to give us a hand, heres a description of how it should be:
Inside the extension, two GUIs are sort of hidde. One is "Aarons GUI", which is fine and working on all skins. Then there is "Joergs GUI", which works only on Monobook and is very useful for what will alter be the german wikipedia version of this extension. This one uses CSS and here we need some help:
# The GUI should be changeable in mediawiki settings (so that Aarons and Jörgs are both usable). # The box that appears when clicking on an icon should overlap the text, not move it around. # The icon should be placed outside the content box, on the same height as the lemma, to the right. # The icon that is shown should correspond to the type of version the viewer is seeing (quality aka reviewed, sighted or not flagged).
If you want to help and have further questions, please contact Aaron Schulz or Daniel Arnold (I will be on holiday the next three weeks).
Bye,
Philipp
On 7/23/07, P. Birken pbirken@gmail.com wrote:
# The GUI should be changeable in mediawiki settings (so that Aarons and Jörgs are both usable).
We should not have multiple interfaces to the same thing. That's confusing to the users and makes no sense. We should pick whichever one is better, possibly integrating good aspects of the other, and have one.
How would that confuse users? Either it is all globally set to one or the other?
At any rate, the second, "simple", UI would be the one to go most likely. The box would be stuck on for non-JS users and it doesn't really use that much less space. I've got the default, standard, UI down to using 1 line tags.
-Aaron Schulz
From: Simetrical Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com Reply-To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:22:27 -0400
On 7/23/07, P. Birken pbirken@gmail.com wrote:
# The GUI should be changeable in mediawiki settings (so that Aarons and Jörgs are both usable).
We should not have multiple interfaces to the same thing. That's confusing to the users and makes no sense. We should pick whichever one is better, possibly integrating good aspects of the other, and have one. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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On 23/07/07, Aaron Schulz jschulz_4587@msn.com wrote:
How would that confuse users? Either it is all globally set to one or the other?
Having multiple alternate user interfaces for the same operation is undesirable in the same vein that introducing needless preference options is; it multiples the number of individual scenarios we have to support, and it should be quite obvious that this is a forthcoming large feature, where we need as simple a support scenario as possible.
A single, clean, well-designed user interface is best; this can be augmented with some JavaScript, provided it degrades in a graceful fashion, of course, but giving users the option to pick from several interfaces for the same task is a bad idea.
Rob Church
As I said before, the users don't choose, the sysadmin sets it in localsettings.php.
Also, the interface options are only for how the tag on pages shows, not about the review form or the any of the special pages.
-Aaron Schulz
From: "Rob Church" robchur@gmail.com Reply-To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:49:59 +0100
A single, clean, well-designed user interface is best; this can be augmented with some JavaScript, provided it degrades in a graceful fashion, of course, but giving users the option to pick from several interfaces for the same task is a bad idea.
Rob Church
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Aaron Schulz wrote:
As I said before, the users don't choose, the sysadmin sets it in localsettings.php.
There can be only one! </highlander>
The sensible thing would seem to be to fix up the nice one so it works, and then only have to worry about having one.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
On 24/07/07, Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org wrote:
Aaron Schulz wrote:
As I said before, the users don't choose, the sysadmin sets it in localsettings.php.
There can be only one!
</highlander>
I had this wonderful image pop into my head a moment ago; a sort of Celtic Brion, with flaming beard, covered in woad and other bits and pieces, and he was waving this enormous great sword...and...then he opened his mouth, and all he said was "dude".
I'm a little disappointed.
Rob Church
Rob Church wrote:
On 24/07/07, Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org wrote:
There can be only one!
</highlander>
I had this wonderful image pop into my head a moment ago; a sort of Celtic Brion, with flaming beard, covered in woad and other bits and pieces, and he was waving this enormous great sword...and...then he opened his mouth, and all he said was "dude".
I'm a little disappointed.
Well, the rest of the line was "Where are my *clothes*?", so it sounds like you got off lightly.
Those ancient woad-guys, they didn't have cars, you see, but they did have Kiera Knightley, which makes up for a lot.
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 19:56:22 Brion Vibber wrote:
Aaron Schulz wrote:
As I said before, the users don't choose, the sysadmin sets it in localsettings.php.
There can be only one!
</highlander>
The sensible thing would seem to be to fix up the nice one so it works, and then only have to worry about having one.
Anyways there is one specific problem we need to solve:
How to inject an item into the page caption? Currently this does not seem to be possible as every HTML you inject there with an extension gets escaped.
This is not specific to the FlaggedRevs extension. The LanguageSelector extension by Duesentrieb also wants to provide an item at this place with the LanguageSelectorIntoTitle option.
So there are multiple use cases for the ability to inject an item there.
To your points with multiple GUIs:
Your thoughts aren't wrong but you aren't aware of some problems that made this necessary: * Almost every corner of the GUI in Wikipedia is used either by usual MediaWiki features or some custom JavaScript/CSS (and they differ between various projects). You simply don't want to touch this and probably b0rk a lot of custom stuff. So the remaining options aren't so much and if you have more than one option every project can choose the one that causes the least adoption problems for them. * Differrent Wikipedias want different types of FlaggedRevs. de.wikipedia wants a super-simple two level flagging with one flag: Every autoconfirmed user (of course a custom autoconfirmation with 30 days + 30 edits) can flag an article revision at the "ok" level (we used the clumsy "sighted" a bad translation from German into English ;-) and any user that is in the reviewer user group can perform the higher "reviewed" degree of the quality flag. en.wikipedia in contrast (at least Erik and others) opted for a more extensive flagging system with multiple flags that cover certain article aspects such as "readability", "completeness"... * The en.wikipedia approach needs more screenspace cause there is more available information. Thus the page caption is not the ideal article status display place for the en.wikipedia approach but perfectly for de.wikipedia. In contrast the more verbose display option of en.wikipedia is to large for the simple de.wikipedia aproach and as screen space isn't infinit you necessarily want the smallest possible item size.
So yes you have indeed a very valid point but you can be sure that we did think about this a lot (and we are very much aware that there are still things that need to be ironed out in the GUI of FlaggedRevs).
Daniel Arnold / Arnomane
On 7/25/07, Daniel Arnold arnomane@gmx.de wrote:
en.wikipedia in contrast (at least Erik and others) opted for a more extensive flagging system with multiple flags that cover certain article aspects such as "readability", "completeness"...
Actually my view is that we probably should start with an even simpler system on en.wp, i.e. focus on getting vandalism-review right, but the point of having a flexible system is being free to experiment with different settings in different environments, and the UI should reflect that. I can also see the need for customized UIs to meet the needs of specific communities & see nothing fundamentally wrong with having multiple UIs here.
On 7/25/07, Daniel Arnold arnomane@gmx.de wrote:
- Almost every corner of the GUI in Wikipedia is used either by usual
MediaWiki features or some custom JavaScript/CSS (and they differ between various projects). You simply don't want to touch this and probably b0rk a lot of custom stuff.
There are a number of places to insert extra stuff: content actions, toolbox, page caption [although perhaps that's not flexible enough], footer, message boxes stuck anywhere you like. If existing customizations are fragile enough to be b0rkable, then that's the fault of their authors and it's the customizations that will have to be fixed.
- Differrent Wikipedias want different types of FlaggedRevs. de.wikipedia
wants a super-simple two level flagging with one flag . . . en.wikipedia in contrast (at least Erik and others) opted for a more extensive flagging system . . .
Then a minimal number of parts of the system should vary according to the number of levels available, if this is the issue, and everything else should remain identical between the two. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you and that's all that's been done? Are there screenshots available of the interfaces?
On Wednesday 25 July 2007 20:40:22 Simetrical wrote:
There are a number of places to insert extra stuff: content actions, toolbox, page caption [although perhaps that's not flexible enough], footer, message boxes stuck anywhere you like.
The left side is already to big, cause of sidebar, tools, search and interwiki links: It is not good to scroll in order to see the last interwiki, any new element in the toolbox would reduce visibility of interwikis and this can't be good as these other langauges feature is one of our unique strengths.
Page caption (aligned to the right on the title line) is a good place for an easy setup but sadly currently any html code injected there gets escaped, so MediaWiki needs to be patched in order to be able using it.
Footer is too invisible (you don't want to read after reading that the version you read was the wrong one) and currently used for applying the flags.
In the content reagion below the title you will have the problem of stacked templates like current event, neutrality... but still it is one of the two possible places.
If existing customizations are fragile enough to be b0rkable, then that's the fault of their authors and it's the customizations that will have to be fixed.
Well depends how widespread they are. At the moment it is technically no problem inserting an element in the sitenotice line to the right. But guess what is there? Coordinates, featured article icon, locked article icon and some other heavily used stuff. Do you want to mess with the people if you don't need to? ;-)
Then a minimal number of parts of the system should vary according to the number of levels available, if this is the issue, and everything else should remain identical between the two. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you and that's all that's been done? Are there screenshots available of the interfaces?
There are two testwikis. Interested people please contact Aaron, Erik or me off-list (as this feature is beeing awaited for so long we want to keep it a bit under the radar in order to calm any outside expectations).
However be aware that although that all features for the first version are there the GUI still needs to be ironed out.
Arnomane
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