Hello,
I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India. I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small information cards. I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and also a sample structure of it at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99
I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970
I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions and feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively, you can also add your suggestions at "Suggestions section" near the end of the project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.
Hoping for a good response.
Thank you.
Regards, Gaurav Chawla
On first sight I was like WTF is he proposing.
Then I read your proposal and it sounds very nice. I hope you will be able to make it happen.
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Gaurav Chawla grviitr@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India. I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small information cards. I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and also a sample structure of it at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99
I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970
I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions and feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively, you can also add your suggestions at "Suggestions section" near the end of the project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.
Hoping for a good response.
Thank you.
Regards, Gaurav Chawla _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
I think you should describe more how these cards are supposed to be created. I think there should be special elements in wiki code that can mark some text as something that is supposed to be in wiki card.
Like:
''<card>'John Fitzgerald''' "'''Jack'''" '''Kennedy''' (May 29, 1917 – November 22, 1963), often referred to by his initials '''JFK''', was the [[List of Presidents of the United States|35th]] [[President of the United States]]</card>, serving from 1961 until [[Assassination of John F. Kennedy|his death]] in 1963.
(note the "card" markup tags)
This way you could update the card content together with article so that you would ensure it's synced
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Petr Bena benapetr@gmail.com wrote:
On first sight I was like WTF is he proposing.
Then I read your proposal and it sounds very nice. I hope you will be able to make it happen.
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Gaurav Chawla grviitr@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India. I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small information cards. I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and also a sample structure of it at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99
I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970
I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions and feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively, you can also add your suggestions at "Suggestions section" near the end of the project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.
Hoping for a good response.
Thank you.
Regards, Gaurav Chawla _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Thanks for the feedback.
My idea is to initially take the data from the intro of wiki page, but when somebody suggests a change, then the suggestions will be put up for voting. Most voted suggestion will go onto the card.
I really like that idea of putting special tags for syncing. But, won't that change the literal structure of the main article?
For example: If I use these tags on Madonna's wikipage,
"Madonna Louise Ciccone[1] (/t??'ko?ne?/ chi-koh-nay; born August 16, 1958) is an American singer-songwriter, actress, director, dancer, and entrepreneur. <card> Born in Bay City, Michigan, she moved to New York City in 1977 to pursue a career in modern dance and performed in the music groups Breakfast Club and Emmy.</card> <br /> Madonna is known for continuously reinventing both her music and image, and for retaining a standard of autonomy within the recording industry. She attained immense popularity by pushing the boundaries of lyrical content in mainstream popular music and imagery in her music videos, which became a fixture on MTV. Critics have praised her....."
And I change the card content to something like.."An influential pop culture icon, Madonna is known for continuously reinventing her music and image. Her work often include explicit content which drives her into controversies. (And then some of her best musics.)"
In this particular case, two things are happening: 1. The previous data that was irrelevant as card content but was relevant and good for the main article is now gone. 2. The literal structure of the article is damaged. There may be immediate repetition of information, or sudden change in the flow of article, or something else like that.
And that's why I am planning to either save its definition part on Wikidata or make its own database/table for saving. What do you think? Is there any other better solution for this problem? One thing that comes to my mind is, we can fetch it from the wiki page as long as it's not changed from it's initial version and once changed we can then, save it in database and call from there. But, this will make it fragmented :-/
On 7 April 2013 21:40, Petr Bena benapetr@gmail.com wrote:
I think you should describe more how these cards are supposed to be created. I think there should be special elements in wiki code that can mark some text as something that is supposed to be in wiki card.
Like:
''<card>'John Fitzgerald''' "'''Jack'''" '''Kennedy''' (May 29, 1917 – November 22, 1963), often referred to by his initials '''JFK''', was the [[List of Presidents of the United States|35th]] [[President of the United States]]</card>, serving from 1961 until [[Assassination of John F. Kennedy|his death]] in 1963.
(note the "card" markup tags)
This way you could update the card content together with article so that you would ensure it's synced
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Petr Bena benapetr@gmail.com wrote:
On first sight I was like WTF is he proposing.
Then I read your proposal and it sounds very nice. I hope you will be able to make it happen.
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Gaurav Chawla grviitr@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India. I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small information cards. I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and also a sample structure of it at
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99
I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970
I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions
and
feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively,
you
can also add your suggestions at "Suggestions section" near the end of
the
project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.
Hoping for a good response.
Thank you.
Regards, Gaurav Chawla _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
@paul Thankyou for suggesting these useful extensions. I will try to integrate them with WikIcards. They will be really helpful.
@max, Thank you for your feedback.
Please, also read my discussion page. I have tried to explain the difference between WikIcards and Navigation popups. Here it is - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Grv99
On 07.04.2013, 22:56 Gaurav wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.
My idea is to initially take the data from the intro of wiki page, but when somebody suggests a change, then the suggestions will be put up for voting. Most voted suggestion will go onto the card.
Are you familiar with contributing to Wikipedia? There's an edit link, you change stuff and once you press "Save" it immediately goes live (oh well, on wikis with FlaggedRevs your change will need to be reviewed by an experienced editor for compliance with basic principles, but still not as complex and exploitable as voting). Why should changing a minor part about an article be more complex and bureaucratic that editing the page altogether?
I really like that idea of putting special tags for syncing. But, won't that change the literal structure of the main article?
Once you separate the extract from the article, you will have a problem of having to update the extract to reflect the latest state of the article, it it really worth it?
- I introduced voting to include the users view into the information/definition that wikIcards will show. That will give a more accepted defn.
- For this, the cards are editable (suggest+vote) too.
On 04/07/2013 03:24 PM, Gaurav Chawla wrote:
- I introduced voting to include the users view into the
information/definition that wikIcards will show. That will give a more accepted defn.
I agree with Quim (on the bug). Consensus is a better approach for content (voting on such things is vulnerable to gamesmanship and mob rule).
I am also skeptical of this as a WMF project. Slightly rethought, though, it could certainly be a cool use of the Wikipedia and Wikidata APIs and/or dumps.
Matt Flaschen
Sorry, I was unable to repond for last two days, I had some academic work to be done.
Thankyou for the discussion and the much needed feedback.
As from the various discussions (bugzilla, my talk page and this thread), it turns out that this project is not as feasible or worthy enough to be applying with. I understand that improving the existing projects is much more important for our awesome wiki to grow better. Hence, I am thinking to drop (Can we apply for multiple projects?) this as an application for GSOC 2013, because without its (wikicards') edit-ability, it will be nearly re-inventing the wheel(or rather Navigation popups, to be precise).
I had already started making it though, and now it would probably complete in a couple of days or by this weekend. But, these new wikicards will not be editable :( , no subject-specific subtitles any sooner and loading the links will probably make it slow (will have to search almost 7 times to fetch 1 card, for the time being, until I research more about all the available APIs). In short, these cards = Navigation popups + links + universally accessible.
and for the GSOC, I am on the hunt for projects again :)
Thankyou again for this great help.
Regards, Gaurav Chawla
On 9 April 2013 09:13, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 04/07/2013 03:24 PM, Gaurav Chawla wrote:
- I introduced voting to include the users view into the
information/definition that wikIcards will show. That will give a more accepted defn.
I agree with Quim (on the bug). Consensus is a better approach for content (voting on such things is vulnerable to gamesmanship and mob rule).
I am also skeptical of this as a WMF project. Slightly rethought, though, it could certainly be a cool use of the Wikipedia and Wikidata APIs and/or dumps.
Matt Flaschen
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 04/10/2013 12:33 PM, Gaurav Chawla wrote:
(Can we apply for multiple projects?)
Yes.
http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc201...
You can technically submit many projects to many organizations. In practice we'd rather help you submitting a good one with us. :)
and for the GSOC, I am on the hunt for projects again :)
I know you know it, but there are many project ideas with mentors available at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2013
Thank you again for this great help.
Thank you for your willingness to experiment and contribute regardless of GSOC and whatever we say. It is essential to believe in you and your ideas. That's the spirit! :)
I think he should focus on Wikidata. They are going to have all the information he needs for his ID cards.
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q9696
Lukas
Am So 07.04.2013 18:10, schrieb Petr Bena:
I think you should describe more how these cards are supposed to be created. I think there should be special elements in wiki code that can mark some text as something that is supposed to be in wiki card.
Like:
''<card>'John Fitzgerald''' "'''Jack'''" '''Kennedy''' (May 29, 1917 – November 22, 1963), often referred to by his initials '''JFK''', was the [[List of Presidents of the United States|35th]] [[President of the United States]]</card>, serving from 1961 until [[Assassination of John F. Kennedy|his death]] in 1963.
(note the "card" markup tags)
This way you could update the card content together with article so that you would ensure it's synced
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Lukas Benedix benedix@zedat.fu-berlin.dewrote:
I think he should focus on Wikidata. They are going to have all the information he needs for his ID cards.
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/**Q9696 http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q9696
And more: http://toolserver.org/~magnus/ts2/reasonator/?q=Q9696
Indeed. We have a Universal Language Selector for 3rd party websites already. This one would be super-duper great. This is where Wikidata can play its part as well!
As for images, we have already a PageImages extension in all wikis, and we have Wikidata, where item properties may point to images.
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Petr Bena benapetr@gmail.com wrote:
On first sight I was like WTF is he proposing.
Then I read your proposal and it sounds very nice. I hope you will be able to make it happen.
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Gaurav Chawla grviitr@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India. I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small information cards. I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and also a sample structure of it at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99
I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970
I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions and feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively, you can also add your suggestions at "Suggestions section" near the end of the project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.
Hoping for a good response.
Thank you.
Regards, Gaurav Chawla _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wow! That looks like an amazing proposal even in its inception. With more refinement it will have great potential.
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Paul Selitskas p.selitskas@gmail.comwrote:
Indeed. We have a Universal Language Selector for 3rd party websites already. This one would be super-duper great. This is where Wikidata can play its part as well!
As for images, we have already a PageImages extension in all wikis, and we have Wikidata, where item properties may point to images.
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Petr Bena benapetr@gmail.com wrote:
On first sight I was like WTF is he proposing.
Then I read your proposal and it sounds very nice. I hope you will be able to make it happen.
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Gaurav Chawla grviitr@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India. I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small information cards. I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and also a sample structure of it at
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99
I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970
I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions
and
feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively,
you
can also add your suggestions at "Suggestions section" near the end of
the
project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.
Hoping for a good response.
Thank you.
Regards, Gaurav Chawla _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- З павагай, Павел Селіцкас/Pavel Selitskas Wizardist @ Wikimedia projects
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 07.04.2013, 20:11 Paul wrote:
Indeed. We have a Universal Language Selector for 3rd party websites already. This one would be super-duper great. This is where Wikidata can play its part as well!
As for images, we have already a PageImages extension in all wikis, and we have Wikidata, where item properties may point to images.
Also, there's Navigation popups[1] while with api.php?action=query&prop=extracts you can get the text of page lede, or N first sentences. To summarize, almost everything (or eveerything) needed for this project is already available, so in a couple hours of hacking it should be possible to hack the navpopups to work in the way described in the proposal. I wonder how much reasearch have the proposer done before making it public? Nevertheless, I'm not saying that this proposal is not worth a SoC, however it should be heavily revised based on input from this thread, then we could decide if it has enough potential.
On 04/07/2013 02:52 PM, Max Semenik wrote:
On 07.04.2013, 20:11 Paul wrote:
Indeed. We have a Universal Language Selector for 3rd party websites already. This one would be super-duper great. This is where Wikidata can play its part as well!
As for images, we have already a PageImages extension in all wikis, and we have Wikidata, where item properties may point to images.
Also, there's Navigation popups[1] while with api.php?action=query&prop=extracts you can get the text of page lede, or N first sentences. To summarize, almost everything (or eveerything) needed for this project is already available, so in a couple hours of hacking it should be possible to hack the navpopups to work in the way described in the proposal. I wonder how much reasearch have the proposer done before making it public? Nevertheless, I'm not saying that this proposal is not worth a SoC, however it should be heavily revised based on input from this thread, then we could decide if it has enough potential.
I'm glad Gaurav shared this proposal with us so early so that we can help with criticism and other feedback. Everyone else reading this who's thinking about proposing a summer project: please tell the list ASAP so we can help you too!
I think my main concern regarding Gaurav's proposal is the same one Yaron mentioned in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Grv99 : as our guidelines state, "YES to projects already backed by a Wikimedia community. NO to projects requiring Wikipedia to be convinced." https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2013#Your_project
Gaurav, the reason we have these guidelines is that we have seen past failures and want to avoid them in the future.
Maybe you could consider thinking about what you are really interested in and finding a more achievable way of working towards that within the structure of GSoC. For example, if you want to ensure that there's a canonical photo and one-sentence summary associated with every article topic, maybe you could work with Wikidata on that -- and then a future student can improve the Navigation Popups gadget (and spread it across all the wikis) to make use of the photo and summary sentence. That's just one idea for an approach that's more likely to succeed.
I share Sumana's and Max's concerns. The lead paragraph and the lead sentence of the article are indeed meant to provide a good, stand-alone summary of the subject, withing the limits of their corresponding lengths. The guidelines concerning these are located at WP:LEADhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_sectionand its section WP:BEGINhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#First_sentence, respectively. The changes you suggest as an example for the Madonna article are actually largely compatible with the spirit of those guidelines. I suggest you to become familiarized with both as you review your proposal. You should also take a look at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Concise_Wikipedia, which presents several of the use cases you already mention. The "Related projects/proposals" section of that page is particularly interesting for seeing what others have already proposed/implemented.
In summary, I think your proposal *could* be useful if it implemented a way to provide subject-specfic layouts for the article leads or first sentences (e.g. highlighting the birth date if it's a person, etc), but Wikidatahttps://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Introductionkind of renders such a heuristic and/or manual annotation approach obsolete, since those pieces of information will be explicitly annotated as such and in a much universal way than the current semantic markup systems such as PERSONDATA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Persondata. Not to mention the advantage of not requiring manual sync between the "cardified" data and the current lead section, and also the ability to use the same set of data in any Wikipedia, and indeed, in any site of the web as Wikidata matures.
My suggestion is to reconsider your proposal, but I would like to leave you a word of encouragement, since you clearly had a good idea (the fact that many before you have thought of ways to tackle the same problems ratifies that), and took the time to investigate existing implementations (i.e. the Popups) and create a detailed exposition to your plan. I'm sure your GSoC project, whatever you choose, will have good chances of success. Keep up the good work!
On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Sumana Harihareswara sumanah@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On 04/07/2013 02:52 PM, Max Semenik wrote:
On 07.04.2013, 20:11 Paul wrote:
Indeed. We have a Universal Language Selector for 3rd party websites already. This one would be super-duper great. This is where Wikidata can play its part as well!
As for images, we have already a PageImages extension in all wikis, and we have Wikidata, where item properties may point to images.
Also, there's Navigation popups[1] while with api.php?action=query&prop=extracts you can get the text of page lede, or N first sentences. To summarize, almost everything (or eveerything) needed for this project is already available, so in a couple hours of hacking it should be possible to hack the navpopups to work in the way described in the proposal. I wonder how much reasearch have the proposer done before making it public? Nevertheless, I'm not saying that this proposal is not worth a SoC, however it should be heavily revised based on input from this thread, then we could decide if it has enough potential.
I'm glad Gaurav shared this proposal with us so early so that we can help with criticism and other feedback. Everyone else reading this who's thinking about proposing a summer project: please tell the list ASAP so we can help you too!
I think my main concern regarding Gaurav's proposal is the same one Yaron mentioned in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Grv99 : as our guidelines state, "YES to projects already backed by a Wikimedia community. NO to projects requiring Wikipedia to be convinced." https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2013#Your_project
Gaurav, the reason we have these guidelines is that we have seen past failures and want to avoid them in the future.
Maybe you could consider thinking about what you are really interested in and finding a more achievable way of working towards that within the structure of GSoC. For example, if you want to ensure that there's a canonical photo and one-sentence summary associated with every article topic, maybe you could work with Wikidata on that -- and then a future student can improve the Navigation Popups gadget (and spread it across all the wikis) to make use of the photo and summary sentence. That's just one idea for an approach that's more likely to succeed. -- Sumana Harihareswara Engineering Community Manager Wikimedia Foundation
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wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org