Hello,
I am not sure where to ask, thus i write here. Sorry if this is the wrong place! I noticed that a Code of Conduct for Phabricator is getting developed. Cool to see that people are creating such a policy, it is standard yet in big other projects. :-)
Just a few thoughts: Unfortunately, the whole Code of Conduct Voting hasn't been widely announced (just on phabricator). There are a lot users which are using phab just once at year. Such a important decision should be widely announced imho. I mainly see participation just from a very closed group.
Last but not least: I am not happy at all that me comment has been strike from https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Code_of_Conduct/Draft&d... by Matt Flaschen (WMF). Looks like it is no longer allowed to comment over there, thus i write here.
:-)
Regards, Steinsplitter
On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 4:07 AM, Steinsplitter Wiki < steinsplitter-wiki@live.com> wrote:
Unfortunately, the whole Code of Conduct Voting hasn't been widely announced (just on phabricator).
By my count, Matt has sent over twenty announcements about it to this list (and quite a few others) over the course of the last thirteen months. The specific section you have commented on has been announced on July 26: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2016-July/086151.html and then again on August 24: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2016-August/086357.html
See also the earlier discussion about where announcements should be made: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_Conduct/Draft#Wider_participatio...
I mainly see participation just from a very closed group.
I don't think "closed" is a reasonable word to use there. Participation is mainly from a small, self-selected group of people who chose to care. Most discussions work like that. Compare the number of people who were involved in defining Commons copyright policy to the number of people who upload images, or the number of people who where involved in the discussion of the (then) new Wikimedia-wide terms of content to the number of people who use the site...
Last but not least: I am not happy at all that me comment has been strike
from https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Code_of_Con duct/Draft&diff=2247995&oldid=2247822 by Matt Flaschen (WMF). Looks like it is no longer allowed to comment over there, thus i write here.
According to the current draft, there is an amendment process every three months where details of the code of conduct can be rediscussed; I would recommend aiming for that.
(Also, in my personal opinion, your comment might have been received more kindly if it contained anything substantive, but it was just +1 to an IDONTLIKEIT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:I_just_don%27t_like_it comment. Those tend not to be helpful in a consensus-building process.)
On 09/28/2016 07:07 AM, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
Last but not least: I am not happy at all that me comment has been strike from https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Code_of_Conduct/Draft&d... by Matt Flaschen (WMF). Looks like it is no longer allowed to comment over there, thus i write here.
It had nothing to do with who made the comment, or your views on the section.
Rather, the issue is that you were taking a position in a discussion that was closed two weeks ago. That could confuse people reviewing the discussion.
Matt Flaschen
On Wed, 2016-09-28 at 11:07 +0000, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
I noticed that a Code of Conduct for Phabricator is getting developed. Cool to see that people are creating such a policy, it is standard yet in big other projects. :-)
A Code of Conduct for Wikimedia's technical spaces is being developed; Phabricator is one of those technical spaces.
Unfortunately, the whole Code of Conduct Voting hasn't been widely announced (just on phabricator). [...] Such a important decision should be widely announced imho.
To reach more people like you, what would be the best place to post messages so you'd see them?
andre
To reach more people like you, what would be the best place to post
messages so you'd see them?
Positing it at the village pumpes of the local project (similar to the tech news notifications), for example :-) Or using limited CN banners (similar to the community survey banners).
--Steinsplitter
Von: Wikitech-l wikitech-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org im Auftrag von Andre Klapper aklapper@wikimedia.org Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. September 2016 15:58 An: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] Code of Conduct On Wed, 2016-09-28 at 11:07 +0000, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
I noticed that a Code of Conduct for Phabricator is getting developed. Cool to see that people are creating such a policy, it is standard yet in big other projects. :-)
A Code of Conduct for Wikimedia's technical spaces is being developed; Phabricator is one of those technical spaces.
Unfortunately, the whole Code of Conduct Voting hasn't been widely announced (just on phabricator). [...] Such a important decision should be widely announced imho.
To reach more people like you, what would be the best place to post messages so you'd see them?
andre
On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:23 PM, Steinsplitter Wiki steinsplitter-wiki@live.com wrote:
To reach more people like you, what would be the best place to post
messages so you'd see them?
Positing it at the village pumpes of the local project (similar to the tech news notifications), for example :-) Or using limited CN banners (similar to the community survey banners).
Honestly, hasn't it been enough already with the code of conduct. The number of announcements related to it has been staggering.
-- bawolff
On 09/29/2016 11:23 AM, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
Positing it at the village pumpes of the local project (similar to the tech news notifications), for example :-) Or using limited CN banners (similar to the community survey banners).
The local projects in this case are MediaWiki.org, wikitech.wikimedia.org, Phabricator, Gerrit, the technical mailing lists, the technical IRC channels, and Etherpad.
Activity in village pumps or elsewhere on other projects is not in scope.
I think most people active on these projects have already heard about it. In addition to notifying people on the mailing lists (probably the primary way people heard about this) and Phabricator, we've also had in-person events.
The sitenotice is something we started looking into (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:T53wjhp29sgu6jms), and should finish following up on.
Matt
2016-09-30 1:18 GMT+03:00 Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org:
The local projects in this case are MediaWiki.org, wikitech.wikimedia.org, Phabricator, Gerrit, the technical mailing lists, the technical IRC channels, and Etherpad.
Activity in village pumps or elsewhere on other projects is not in scope.
Agreed. Still, a mention in the Technical News now and then would have been nice. The ArchCom's activity, which is likely of interest to fewer people, is present in every edition of the news.
Strainu
On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 1:46 AM, Strainu strainu10@gmail.com wrote:
2016-09-30 1:18 GMT+03:00 Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org:
The local projects in this case are MediaWiki.org, wikitech.wikimedia.org, Phabricator, Gerrit, the technical mailing lists, the technical IRC channels, and Etherpad.
Activity in village pumps or elsewhere on other projects is not in scope.
Agreed. Still, a mention in the Technical News now and then would have been nice. The ArchCom's activity, which is likely of interest to fewer people, is present in every edition of the news.
I think that's because I've – mainly unconsciously, perhaps – been seeing ArchCom meetings as a chance for technically advanced editors to get a grasp of future changes to all the Wikimedia wikis, but the Code of Conduct discussion as an internal process for the people involved in the spaces mentioned by Matt. Important to spread information about on Phabricator, MediaiWiki.org, technical mailing lists et cetera but perhaps not suitable for a newsletter that is mainly trying to explain technical changes to editors who are not active on those platforms – the same way I wouldn't include an invitation to take part of a process that's specific for English Wikipedia.
(The ArchCom meetings are actually included in less than half the issues – I'm counting seven mentions in the last twenty weeks – but that doesn't take away Strainu's point: It's a technical item that's regularly included.)
//Johan Jönsson --
I disagree that other projects are not in scope. WMF directs feedback on its products to MediaWiki.org , so those other projects are a stakeholder, and should be notified. I am not advocating regular updates, but towards the end an announcement would be good.
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 05:18 Matthew Flaschen, mflaschen@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 09/29/2016 11:23 AM, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
Positing it at the village pumpes of the local project (similar to the
tech news notifications), for example :-)
Or using limited CN banners (similar to the community survey banners).
The local projects in this case are MediaWiki.org, wikitech.wikimedia.org, Phabricator, Gerrit, the technical mailing lists, the technical IRC channels, and Etherpad.
Activity in village pumps or elsewhere on other projects is not in scope.
I think most people active on these projects have already heard about it. In addition to notifying people on the mailing lists (probably the primary way people heard about this) and Phabricator, we've also had in-person events.
The sitenotice is something we started looking into (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:T53wjhp29sgu6jms), and should finish following up on.
Matt
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