I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported. Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which distro of Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki? I am thinking about installing Debian but am open to any suggestions that have a friendly UX.
Solaris is an option also.
Pine
Hey,
Wiadomość napisana przez Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com w dniu 20 lip 2014, o godz. 21:55:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported.
Where, when, why what? I mean, from where do you have that info?
Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which distro of Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki?
It's quite amusing in the view of what you said: it's… Ubuntu :p [0]
And basically anything that can run some web server (e.g. apache, nginx) with php support should work. I think it would be hard to find a distro that wouldn't work.
Regards, Michał
[0] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers#Software
From https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Running_MediaWiki_on_Ubuntu
"*Warning:* MediaWiki can also be installed using aptitude. The Ubuntu MediaWiki package is unsupported and usually outdated. We do not recommend you use it."
I suppose that could refer only to aptitude and not Ubuntu support as a whole.
Pine
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Michał Łazowik mlazowik@me.com wrote:
Hey,
Wiadomość napisana przez Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com w dniu 20 lip 2014, o godz. 21:55:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported.
Where, when, why what? I mean, from where do you have that info?
Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which distro of Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki?
It's quite amusing in the view of what you said: it's… Ubuntu :p [0]
And basically anything that can run some web server (e.g. apache, nginx) with php support should work. I think it would be hard to find a distro that wouldn't work.
Regards, Michał
[0] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers#Software
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
I think that's referring to the package distributed by Ubuntu/Canonical, not support for running the app if you install it via some other method.
-Chris
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
From https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Running_MediaWiki_on_Ubuntu
"*Warning:* MediaWiki can also be installed using aptitude. The Ubuntu MediaWiki package is unsupported and usually outdated. We do not recommend you use it."
I suppose that could refer only to aptitude and not Ubuntu support as a whole.
Pine
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Michał Łazowik mlazowik@me.com wrote:
Hey,
Wiadomość napisana przez Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com w dniu 20 lip
2014,
o godz. 21:55:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported.
Where, when, why what? I mean, from where do you have that info?
Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which distro of Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki?
It's quite amusing in the view of what you said: it's… Ubuntu :p [0]
And basically anything that can run some web server (e.g. apache, nginx) with php support should work. I think it would be hard to find a distro that wouldn't work.
Regards, Michał
[0] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers#Software
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Actually the WMF servers run Ubuntu, and it refers to the apt-get install mediawiki method as being unsupported
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Christopher Wilson gwsuperfan@gmail.com wrote:
I think that's referring to the package distributed by Ubuntu/Canonical, not support for running the app if you install it via some other method.
-Chris
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
From https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Running_MediaWiki_on_Ubuntu
"*Warning:* MediaWiki can also be installed using aptitude. The Ubuntu MediaWiki package is unsupported and usually outdated. We do not
recommend
you use it."
I suppose that could refer only to aptitude and not Ubuntu support as a whole.
Pine
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Michał Łazowik mlazowik@me.com wrote:
Hey,
Wiadomość napisana przez Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com w dniu 20 lip
2014,
o godz. 21:55:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported.
Where, when, why what? I mean, from where do you have that info?
Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which distro of Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki?
It's quite amusing in the view of what you said: it's… Ubuntu :p [0]
And basically anything that can run some web server (e.g. apache,
nginx)
with php support should work. I think it would be hard to find a distro that wouldn't work.
Regards, Michał
[0] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers#Software
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Yes that's correct. The Ubuntu package isn't officially supported. This is more a historical thing than anything else, as a couple years back one of the packages (I think it was redhat's) decided that moving the skins directory (This was back before RL, so that included all the css and JS) to a non-web accessible directory was a good idea. And most of the other packages were horribly outdated, so all the distro packages got deemed "unsupported".
Now a days the distro packages are a lot better, but still might be a little behind the time in terms of version. If you're installing MediaWiki, my recommendation would be to download the source from mediawiki.org, and only use your package manager to install dependencies like apache, mysql, etc. However, the distro packages are probably fine too.
As for Solaris vs Ubuntu. I'd recommend linux if you have a choice (In particular mediawiki uses some GNU userland utilities if available that would definitely be in linux, such as bash, diff3, timeout. I have no idea if other unixes have all those installed by default). MediaWiki is probably the most well tested on Ubuntu of any OS (as that's what WMF uses), but really its pretty OS agnostic.
--bawolff
On 7/20/14, Christopher Wilson gwsuperfan@gmail.com wrote:
I think that's referring to the package distributed by Ubuntu/Canonical, not support for running the app if you install it via some other method.
-Chris
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
From https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Running_MediaWiki_on_Ubuntu
"*Warning:* MediaWiki can also be installed using aptitude. The Ubuntu MediaWiki package is unsupported and usually outdated. We do not recommend you use it."
I suppose that could refer only to aptitude and not Ubuntu support as a whole.
Pine
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Michał Łazowik mlazowik@me.com wrote:
Hey,
Wiadomość napisana przez Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com w dniu 20 lip
2014,
o godz. 21:55:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported.
Where, when, why what? I mean, from where do you have that info?
Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which distro of Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki?
It's quite amusing in the view of what you said: it's… Ubuntu :p [0]
And basically anything that can run some web server (e.g. apache, nginx) with php support should work. I think it would be hard to find a distro that wouldn't work.
Regards, Michał
[0] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers#Software
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Wiadomość napisana przez Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com w dniu 20 lip 2014, o godz. 22:10:
I suppose that could refer only to aptitude and not Ubuntu support as a whole.
Yep. That means that the package available on Ubuntu is not supported.
If I'm not mistaken you're preparing for some MediaWiki hacking, including hackathon? If yes, I'd strongly recommend you to take a look at Vagrant [0]. It's software that allows you to set up a clean working environment, isolated from your system. That way you can keep your main system clean and have an easier setup.
MediaWiki-Vagrant is a configuration for Vagrant that gives you MediaWiki development focused environment with debug info and other handy things enabled by default.
Hope you find that useful and happy coding :)
Michał
Wiadomość napisana przez Michał Łazowik mlazowik@me.com w dniu 20 lip 2014, o godz. 22:22:
MediaWiki-Vagrant is a configuration for Vagrant that gives you MediaWiki development focused environment with debug info and other handy things enabled by default.
Forgot the link, sorry: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki-Vagrant
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:10:09 +0200, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
From https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Running_MediaWiki_on_Ubuntu
"*Warning:* MediaWiki can also be installed using aptitude. The Ubuntu MediaWiki package is unsupported and usually outdated. We do not recommend you use it."
I suppose that could refer only to aptitude and not Ubuntu support as a whole.
Yes, that only refers to the various package manager packages (applies to distros other than Ubuntu, too), which historically have been varying in quality (so to speak) and always hopelessly outdated.
Yep. It says that the broken .deb package made by Debian guys is not supported by us developeers, not that MW doesn't support Ubuntu or vice versa. Just stick with tarballs or Git checkouts and you'll be fine.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
From https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Running_MediaWiki_on_Ubuntu
"*Warning:* MediaWiki can also be installed using aptitude. The Ubuntu MediaWiki package is unsupported and usually outdated. We do not recommend you use it."
I suppose that could refer only to aptitude and not Ubuntu support as a whole.
Pine
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Michał Łazowik mlazowik@me.com wrote:
Hey,
Wiadomość napisana przez Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com w dniu 20 lip
2014,
o godz. 21:55:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported.
Where, when, why what? I mean, from where do you have that info?
Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which distro of Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki?
It's quite amusing in the view of what you said: it's… Ubuntu :p [0]
And basically anything that can run some web server (e.g. apache, nginx) with php support should work. I think it would be hard to find a distro that wouldn't work.
Regards, Michał
[0] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers#Software
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Where does it say it's unsupported? Some older page, talking about the distro version? I routinely use MW from tarball on Ubuntu and it's fine. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Debian/Ubuntu
I'd personally recommend you install the prerequisites then use the MediaWiki tarball, but the distro 1.19 in recent versions of Ubuntu should be good (if a bit old).
I have done MW on Solaris and it was an exercise in pain, unless you use something that resolves dependencies for you. That is to say, a Linux.
- d.
On 20 July 2014 20:55, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported. Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which distro of Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki? I am thinking about installing Debian but am open to any suggestions that have a friendly UX.
Solaris is an option also.
Pine _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Thanks. Unfortunately I will not be attending Wikimania or the hackathon. I wish I was. I would like to go.
Pine
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:24 PM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Where does it say it's unsupported? Some older page, talking about the distro version? I routinely use MW from tarball on Ubuntu and it's fine. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Debian/Ubuntu
I'd personally recommend you install the prerequisites then use the MediaWiki tarball, but the distro 1.19 in recent versions of Ubuntu should be good (if a bit old).
I have done MW on Solaris and it was an exercise in pain, unless you use something that resolves dependencies for you. That is to say, a Linux.
- d.
On 20 July 2014 20:55, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported. Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which distro
of
Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki? I am thinking about installing Debian
but
am open to any suggestions that have a friendly UX.
Solaris is an option also.
Pine _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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David: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Running_MediaWiki_on_Ubuntu
That warning could be clearer about what it's referring to.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:24 PM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Where does it say it's unsupported? Some older page, talking about the distro version? I routinely use MW from tarball on Ubuntu and it's fine. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Debian/Ubuntu
I'd personally recommend you install the prerequisites then use the MediaWiki tarball, but the distro 1.19 in recent versions of Ubuntu should be good (if a bit old).
I have done MW on Solaris and it was an exercise in pain, unless you use something that resolves dependencies for you. That is to say, a Linux.
- d.
On 20 July 2014 20:55, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported. Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which distro
of
Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki? I am thinking about installing Debian
but
am open to any suggestions that have a friendly UX.
Solaris is an option also.
Pine _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Yes, please do not install MediaWiki via apt-get or aptitude. It will be old version with suboptimal settings. It is much better to install it manually. Speaking of Ubuntu, I think WMF is running a lot of Ubuntu / Debian systems. So, Ubuntu should be the best way of running MediaWiki. Dmitriy
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
David: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Running_MediaWiki_on_Ubuntu
That warning could be clearer about what it's referring to.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:24 PM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Where does it say it's unsupported? Some older page, talking about the distro version? I routinely use MW from tarball on Ubuntu and it's fine. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Debian/Ubuntu
I'd personally recommend you install the prerequisites then use the MediaWiki tarball, but the distro 1.19 in recent versions of Ubuntu
should
be good (if a bit old).
I have done MW on Solaris and it was an exercise in pain, unless you use something that resolves dependencies for you. That is to say, a Linux.
- d.
On 20 July 2014 20:55, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported. Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which
distro
of
Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki? I am thinking about installing Debian
but
am open to any suggestions that have a friendly UX.
Solaris is an option also.
Pine _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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The main issue with packages is not even the version. It is kinda expected that distros don't have bleeding-edge packages, and 1.19 will be supported for almost a year from now. However all packages I know of (Debian flavors and not) split MW directory and put its parts into different places, trying to follow the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The result is not only confsuion (one guy on IRC asked which of three LocalSettings.php files present on his server he should edit; two of them turned out to be symlinks but still helluva confusing) but also outright breakages because our code base generally assumes that everything lies in one place.
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 12:23 AM, Dmitriy Sintsov questpc256@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, please do not install MediaWiki via apt-get or aptitude. It will be old version with suboptimal settings. It is much better to install it manually. Speaking of Ubuntu, I think WMF is running a lot of Ubuntu / Debian systems. So, Ubuntu should be the best way of running MediaWiki. Dmitriy
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
David: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Running_MediaWiki_on_Ubuntu
That warning could be clearer about what it's referring to.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:24 PM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Where does it say it's unsupported? Some older page, talking about the distro version? I routinely use MW from tarball on Ubuntu and it's fine. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Debian/Ubuntu
I'd personally recommend you install the prerequisites then use the MediaWiki tarball, but the distro 1.19 in recent versions of Ubuntu
should
be good (if a bit old).
I have done MW on Solaris and it was an exercise in pain, unless you use something that resolves dependencies for you. That is to say, a Linux.
- d.
On 20 July 2014 20:55, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have experience with Ubuntu but MediaWiki says that Ubuntu is unsupported. Which Linux distro would people recommend, and which
distro
of
Linux does WMF use for MediaWiki? I am thinking about installing
Debian
but
am open to any suggestions that have a friendly UX.
Solaris is an option also.
Pine _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Max Semenik maxsem.wiki@gmail.com writes:
The main issue with packages is not even the version. It is kinda expected that distros don't have bleeding-edge packages, and 1.19 will be supported for almost a year from now.
This was done with Debian specifically in mind.
However all packages I know of (Debian flavors and not) split MW directory and put its parts into different places, trying to follow the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The result is [...] outright breakages because our code base generally assumes that everything lies in one place.
These are bugs that should be fixed. Release management has worked closely with Debian and Fedora packagers to improve their packaging because, despite any on-wiki disclaimers, people will continue to use "apt-get" and "yum" to install MediaWiki.
Mark.
On 7/22/14, 3:09 PM, Mark A. Hershberger wrote:
Max Semenik maxsem.wiki@gmail.com writes:
However all packages I know of (Debian flavors and not) split MW directory and put its parts into different places, trying to follow the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The result is [...] outright breakages because our code base generally assumes that everything lies in one place.
These are bugs that should be fixed. Release management has worked closely with Debian and Fedora packagers to improve their packaging because, despite any on-wiki disclaimers, people will continue to use "apt-get" and "yum" to install MediaWiki.
Having seen many "institutional" installations of MediaWiki (mostly in universities), imo the distro version is actually the better option to recommend by default for non-sophisticated users. Manually installed MediaWiki, unpacked from tarballs, has a bad habit of being installed once and *never, ever* upgraded. I just found one here running v1.14! If it had been the Ubuntu-package version, it's much more likely someone would have upgraded it in the years since then (e.g. the Apache on this box has been upgraded, but not the MediaWiki). The distro packaging does sometimes introduce some weirdness compared to the official structure, but imo it's the less-bad choice.
-Mark
At previous job, I've installed and maintained a wiki farm with multiple sites, interwiki setup and caching while another emploee installed MediaWiki from repository via single command and told to former boss that my work is very simple. I hate anything web-related in packages because of that.
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:55 PM, Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
On 7/22/14, 3:09 PM, Mark A. Hershberger wrote:
Max Semenik maxsem.wiki@gmail.com writes:
However all packages I know of (Debian flavors and not) split MW
directory and put its parts into different places, trying to follow the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The result is [...] outright breakages because our code base generally assumes that everything lies in one place.
These are bugs that should be fixed. Release management has worked closely with Debian and Fedora packagers to improve their packaging because, despite any on-wiki disclaimers, people will continue to use "apt-get" and "yum" to install MediaWiki.
Having seen many "institutional" installations of MediaWiki (mostly in universities), imo the distro version is actually the better option to recommend by default for non-sophisticated users. Manually installed MediaWiki, unpacked from tarballs, has a bad habit of being installed once and *never, ever* upgraded. I just found one here running v1.14! If it had been the Ubuntu-package version, it's much more likely someone would have upgraded it in the years since then (e.g. the Apache on this box has been upgraded, but not the MediaWiki). The distro packaging does sometimes introduce some weirdness compared to the official structure, but imo it's the less-bad choice.
-Mark
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