Hi,
is there anywhere a $subject?
My first question is: is it better to leave an empty line under section titles or not? I would like to see pros and cons. Is there a consensus for preferred way? (I think source code style guides are primarily within the scope of programmers and not in that of users without programming experience, that's why I ask here.)
Kinda depends on whether you're asking for Wikimedia-specific rules or general MediaWiki rules.
Speaking just about Wikimedia, each local wiki community may have different preferences. There is no process for enforcing global (meaning, cross-wiki) recommendations in this regard, so in practice, even if someone from the technical community came up with universal rules, no one would really need to stick to them, and if they did and their contribution was reverted, the argument from these rules could be ignored.
Best,
Szymon Grabarczuk (he/him)
Lead Movement Communications Specialist (Product & Tech)
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 11:34 AM Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
is there anywhere a $subject?
My first question is: is it better to leave an empty line under section titles or not? I would like to see pros and cons. Is there a consensus for preferred way? (I think source code style guides are primarily within the scope of programmers and not in that of users without programming experience, that's why I ask here.)
-- Bináris _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
Szymon Grabarczuk sgrabarczuk@wikimedia.org ezt írta (időpont: 2024. jún. 27., Cs, 15:26):
Kinda depends on whether you're asking for Wikimedia-specific rules or general MediaWiki rules.
Speaking just about Wikimedia, each local wiki community may have different preferences. There is no process for enforcing global (meaning, cross-wiki) recommendations in this regard, so in practice, even if someone from the technical community came up with universal rules, no one would really need to stick to them, and if they did and their contribution was reverted, the argument from these rules could be ignored.
I don't mean enforcement, just recommendations. Yes, each local wiki community may have different preference, but tools (such as different editors, AWB, Pywikibot etc) are crosswiki. So there is no point in creating local recommendations, if the tools work in another way. On the other side, very few contributors are interested and can understand the significance of a nice code. This is tipically the field of programming people, who are here. That's why I asked here first. People here have the experience to say clever things. Several programming languages have global style guides (such as PEP.8 for Python), while others only have more or less followed tradiotions or local guides, such as PHP. Other non-programming languages, such as CSS or query languages may also follow guides. Why is the wikitext an exception?
My intention is to develop a style guide for Jungarian Wikipedia (yes, that's local), but as a first step I would like to know, if soighlighters).mebody feels like contributing to a global Wikimedia-specificguide. This is the answer for the first question: I am not interested in fandomwiki and anything else, just Wikimedia projects. If we do it globally, we can co-work with developers of editors and bots, without which the whole effort is hopeless.
The main thing is not a blank line after titles, This is just a simple task for beginning the project. I talked to somebody about this question, and I wanted to collect arguments. My main problem is the ugly formatting of templates, especially {{cite web}} and companions, which makes very hard to read and edit source text (even with syntax highlighters). But I did not want to begin in the middle of things.
My vision has 3 steps:
1. Ther should be a standard that can be followed. 2. Tools such as built-in editors and bot frameworks and local templates etc. should follow this when creating new texts. 3. Bots could follow this when making cosmetic changes.
So I don't mean any enforcement, just efforts. #2 could do a lot for better formatted wikitext. If nobody comes with me, I will try it in huwiki locally, but of course, that will be less useful.
Sorry for theis messy sentence, I have just found the piece of text I thought to be lost. :-) So I meant:
My intention is to develop a style guide for Hungarian Wikipedia (yes, that's local), but as a first step I would like to know, if somebody feels like contributing to a global Wikimedia-specificguide.
Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com ezt írta (időpont: 2024. nov. 26., K, 9:56):
My intention is to develop a style guide for Jungarian Wikipedia (yes, that's local), but as a first step I would like to know, if soighlighters).mebody feels like contributing to a global Wikimedia-specificguide.
Pe joi, 27 iunie 2024, Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com a scris:
Hi, is there anywhere a $subject?
Even if it exists, it is moot. For instance, for templates you can specify the layout from the docs, but it is not enforced in the wikitext editors. One can always edit through an external editor and put the elements however they like.
That being said, Parsoid is pretty stubborn wrt to layout. You wouldn't believe the number of people aligning the equal sign in the templates they add and how angry they get when VE "ruins" there carefully crafted layout.
My first question is: is it better to leave an empty line under section
titles or not? I would like to see pros and cons. Is there a consensus for preferred way?
I would not leave spurious empty lines in any circumstances, as there are a million ways they can cause havoc later. For example, section contents can be transcluded, and if there is an empty line before the transclusion, you will end up with an extra paragraph.
(I think source code style guides are primarily within the scope of
programmers and not in that of users without programming experience, that's why I ask here.)
-- Bináris
For what it's worth: the Translate extension page at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:Translate/Page_translation_exa... claims that there should be a blank line after section titles so that the extension can consider titles as separate elements than text because "Adding a blank line allows translators to know when they can take a break. Plus it prevents issues with wikitext."
On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 11:58 AM Strainu strainu10@gmail.com wrote:
Pe joi, 27 iunie 2024, Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com a scris:
Hi, is there anywhere a $subject?
Even if it exists, it is moot. For instance, for templates you can specify the layout from the docs, but it is not enforced in the wikitext editors. One can always edit through an external editor and put the elements however they like.
That being said, Parsoid is pretty stubborn wrt to layout. You wouldn't believe the number of people aligning the equal sign in the templates they add and how angry they get when VE "ruins" there carefully crafted layout.
My first question is: is it better to leave an empty line under section
titles or not? I would like to see pros and cons. Is there a consensus for preferred way?
I would not leave spurious empty lines in any circumstances, as there are a million ways they can cause havoc later. For example, section contents can be transcluded, and if there is an empty line before the transclusion, you will end up with an extra paragraph.
(I think source code style guides are primarily within the scope of
programmers and not in that of users without programming experience, that's why I ask here.)
-- Bináris _______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
Strainu strainu10@gmail.com ezt írta (időpont: 2024. jún. 27., Cs, 17:58):
That being said, Parsoid is pretty stubborn wrt to layout. You wouldn't believe the number of people aligning the equal sign in the templates they add and how angry they get when VE "ruins" there carefully crafted layout.
So equal signs in templates are better not to be aligned? Why? This would be one concrete recommendation.
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