For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
== Aromanian ==
roa-rup.wikipedia.org -> rup.wikipedia.org roa-rup.wiktionary.org -> rup.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15988
ISO-639-2 code 'rup' was added in September 2005, and can supersede the generic 'roa' code with 'rup' subtag.
This seems pretty uncontroversial. Existing domains and interwikis would be redirected.
== Low German ==
nds.wikipedia.org -> nds-de.wikipedia.org nds.wikibooks.org -> nds-de.wikibooks.org nds.wikiquote.org -> nds-de.wikiquote.org nds.wiktionary.org -> nds-de.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8540
Reasoning: Disambiguation of country variants to create a portal site (nds-nl.wikipedia.org exists as well).
The original request is almost 2 years old and didn't seem to have any clear consensus; is this still desired?
Creating a portal site could cause difficulties with URL compatibility, and I don't really recommend making this change without clear consensus from the community there.
Note that nds.wikipedia.org includes a link on the front page to nds-nl.wikipedia.org.
== Moldovan ==
mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org mo.wiktionary.org -> mo-cyrl.wiktionary.org
The official Moldovan language is the same as Romanian, using Latin script and same orthography as on ro.wikipedia.org. Latin script was officially adopted in 1989, replacing Soviet-era Cyrillic script; use of Cyrillic script is still "official" in an unrecognized, lightly-populated breakaway region but if people there use it, they don't seem to edit Wikipedia...
The 'mo' language code has been officially deprecated from ISO 639-1/2 as of November 3, 2008; "Moldovan" in general use is just Romanian, and is covered by ro.wikipedia.org.
mo.wikipedia.org has not actually been edited since December 2006. mo.wiktionary.org seems to have.... 4 definition pages, which only contain translations (no definitions!) Being inactive, these projects could be closed in addition to / instead of the rename.
Use of tag 'mo-cyrl' would follow existing IANA-registered language subtags such as 'bs-Cyrl' and 'bs-Latn' for Cyrillic and Latin script variants.
Most likely, for compatibility we would redirect the existing 'mo' URLs to the new 'mo-cyrl' ones, but they would now be visibly marked by the subtag as being "yes we know, it's Cyrillic here". If we're going to lock the site as well, adding a sitenotice pointing to the Romanian wiki is probably wise.
== Belorusian "old orthography" ==
be-x-old.wikipedia.org -> be-tarask.wikipedia.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9823
Some time ago we swapped around the Belorusian Wikipedia, moving the previous version which was primarily using a non-official orthography, from 'be' to 'be-x-old', and re-establishing be.wikipedia.org using the official state orthography.
There was later a request to rename 'be-x-old' (using a non-standard code) to 'be-tarask', a IANA-registered subtag which is rather more descriptive. IMHO this change should not be terribly controversial -- if we're not closing it, we may as well give it its official RFC 4646-registered code.
Old domain and interwikis would be redirected.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
Brion Vibber hett schreven:
For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
== Low German ==
nds.wikipedia.org -> nds-de.wikipedia.org nds.wikibooks.org -> nds-de.wikibooks.org nds.wikiquote.org -> nds-de.wikiquote.org nds.wiktionary.org -> nds-de.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8540
Reasoning: Disambiguation of country variants to create a portal site (nds-nl.wikipedia.org exists as well).
The original request is almost 2 years old and didn't seem to have any clear consensus; is this still desired?
Creating a portal site could cause difficulties with URL compatibility, and I don't really recommend making this change without clear consensus from the community there.
Note that nds.wikipedia.org includes a link on the front page to nds-nl.wikipedia.org.
If the domain were to be changed, only nds.wikipedia should be changed to nds-de.wikipedia. Wikibooks and Wiktionary are planned to be used for both variants of nds, just as not yet created Wikisource and Wikinews are. Wikiquote could be deleted completely. There never was productive activity and it is unlikely it will become active anytime soon. None of the active nds contributors is interested in Wikiquote.
But I think, the domain shouldn't be changed at all. There's no community consensus and we live quite good with the status quo since two years (since the creation of nds-nl.wikipedia). We shouldn't change the established code. nds.wikipedia is hosted under nds since more than five years.
Marcus Buck
Brion Vibber wrote:
== Belorusian "old orthography" ==
be-x-old.wikipedia.org -> be-tarask.wikipedia.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9823
Some time ago we swapped around the Belorusian Wikipedia, moving the previous version which was primarily using a non-official orthography, from 'be' to 'be-x-old', and re-establishing be.wikipedia.org using the official state orthography.
There was later a request to rename 'be-x-old' (using a non-standard code) to 'be-tarask', a IANA-registered subtag which is rather more descriptive. IMHO this change should not be terribly controversial -- if we're not closing it, we may as well give it its official RFC 4646-registered code.
Old domain and interwikis would be redirected.
I don't know _anything_ about Belarusian orthography, and from reading the bug it seems I may be poking a political hornet's nest here, but I'm going to ask this anyway: are the differences between the two variants straightforward enough in practice that we could use MediaWiki's language variant conversion here? If we can do it for Chinese, it seems at least plausible that it could work here too. Of course, compiling the conversion rules would take some nontrivial effort, but the payoff (not having two redundant projects using different spellings of the same language) seems like it might be worth it.
Ilmari Karonen wrote:
I don't know _anything_ about Belarusian orthography, and from reading the bug it seems I may be poking a political hornet's nest here, but I'm
Only very slightly.
going to ask this anyway: are the differences between the two variants straightforward enough in practice that we could use MediaWiki's language variant conversion here? If we can do it for Chinese, it seems
See http://ru.wikipedia.decenturl.com/1933 . It seems to me that it should be possible to convert from old orthography to new, but not from new orthography to old.
On Wednesday 26 November 2008 12:45:41 Nikola Smolenski wrote:
Ilmari Karonen wrote:
I don't know _anything_ about Belarusian orthography, and from reading the bug it seems I may be poking a political hornet's nest here, but I'm
Only very slightly.
going to ask this anyway: are the differences between the two variants straightforward enough in practice that we could use MediaWiki's language variant conversion here? If we can do it for Chinese, it seems
See http://ru.wikipedia.decenturl.com/1933 . It seems to me that it should be possible to convert from old orthography to new, but not from new orthography to old.
I translated the article from Russian Wikipedia so you can see more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarusian_orthography_reform_of_1933
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Nikola Smolenski smolensk@eunet.yu wrote:
I translated the article from Russian Wikipedia so you can see more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarusian_orthography_reform_of_1933
My impression is that the difference between be and be-x-old is almost purely political. The difference between the two spellings is not bigger than between US and UK English.
I'm not blaming any side, because both of them present valid points. The fact that there are two Wikipedias for this language is particularly saddening, because it is in a rather problematic situation to start with. While the sr/hr/bs/sh Wikipedia are all (arguably) written in the same language with several spelling standards, the language itself is undoubtedly out of any danger of extinction, no matter what name you call it. Belarusian, on the other hand, is under pressure from Russian. So in the case of Wikipedia, instead of trying to understand which Wikipedia they should write and read, many writers and readers who know the Belarusian language, simply go to the Russian Wikipedia, so both be and be-x-old develop very slowly.
I would be very glad to see paragraph 3 of the language policy ("different written forms") enforced in this case and these two Wikipedias merged.
Brion Vibber schrieb:
For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
Another two candidates:
1) zh-yue -> yue. See bug 8217 and Names.php:
'yue' => '粵語', # Cantonese -- (bug 8217) yue instead of zh-yue, http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=y
2) zh-min-nan -> nan 'nan' => 'Bân-lâm-gú', # Min-nan -- (bug 8217) nan instead of zh-min-nan, http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=n
Raymond.
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Raimond Spekking wrote:
Another two candidates:
zh-yue -> yue. See bug 8217 and Names.php:
'yue' => '粵語', # Cantonese -- (bug 8217) yue instead of zh-yue,
http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=y
- zh-min-nan -> nan 'nan' => 'Bân-lâm-gú', # Min-nan -- (bug 8217) nan instead of
zh-min-nan, http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=n
Ah, thanks! I was looking for a reference to those but couldn't find them since the codes were not referenced in the bug entry summary.
- -- brion
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