Daniel Friesen wrote:
IT departments need to start maintaining their computers and employees need to start demanding that the computers they work with are kept to modern standards. People keep bringing up legacy apps as a reason that IT departments cannot give employees a properly maintained browser environment. But as I explained that's BS because there are other options than simply upgrading IE. The argument that it would be confusing to employees is also BS because that's easily covered by making everyone use Firefox/Chrome/etc... for all web browsing and placing shortcuts on the desktop that open up pages in IE to make it look like the internal systems are apps rather than websites. Well, that or using chrome frame. So basically this boils it down to pointing it out that the arguments saying that a proper browsing environment "can't" be provided is BS. And this is not something they can't do, it's just something they won't. Which is a case we should not be catering to and enabling.
Right... well, again, just like the OP, you're focusing on how you feel the world should be while completely ignoring reality. It's not a matter of catering to obstinate IT folks. It's a matter of being pragmatic about the current landscape and its limitations.
MZMcBride
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 07:15:47 -0700, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Daniel Friesen wrote:
IT departments need to start maintaining their computers and employees need to start demanding that the computers they work with are kept to modern standards. People keep bringing up legacy apps as a reason that IT departments cannot give employees a properly maintained browser environment. But as I explained that's BS because there are other options than simply upgrading IE. The argument that it would be confusing to employees is also BS because that's easily covered by making everyone use Firefox/Chrome/etc... for all web browsing and placing shortcuts on the desktop that open up pages in IE to make it look like the internal systems are apps rather than websites. Well, that or using chrome frame. So basically this boils it down to pointing it out that the arguments saying that a proper browsing environment "can't" be provided is BS. And this is not something they can't do, it's just something they won't. Which is a case we should not be catering to and enabling.
Right... well, again, just like the OP, you're focusing on how you feel the world should be while completely ignoring reality. It's not a matter of catering to obstinate IT folks. It's a matter of being pragmatic about the current landscape and its limitations.
MZMcBride
Focused, not exactly... overenthusiastic for a moment perhaps... but without a valid point? No.
Base point. The argument that IT departments cannot provide a proper browser for employees to use does not hold water. They can, it's only a matter of it not being done.
Argue all you want on whether IT departments that just won't provide a proper browser environment matter to us. But don't argue that they can't because of legacy apps as people have been trying to argue, because that argument isn't valid.
MZMcBride wrote:
Right... well, again, just like the OP, you're focusing on how you feel the world should be while completely ignoring reality. It's not a matter of catering to obstinate IT folks. It's a matter of being pragmatic about the current landscape and its limitations.
This touches, I think, on both the fundamental issue, and the reason we can (and likely will) debate this forever, without ever finding a right or even a consensus answer. Do we want to educate/force people to use the "right" browser, or do we want to support them, regardless of what they're using?
There are lots of reasons to want to educate/force a change: security, implementational convenience, standards compliance, modernity, etc. And there are just as many reasons to oppose the imposition: personal preference, obstinate IT department, obsolete computer, cascading incompatibilities. Some of these reasons (on both sides) are super important, while others are more subjective -- but not everyone will even agree on which are which.
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