Dear colleague, you have written:
However copious the examples, and whatever the current practice, it is not accurate to say that these abbreviations do not exist. I do have the book "Anglo-American Cataloging Rules" (for libraries) which lists these for several languages, including Czech.
Could you be more precise? What does this book exactly say about Czech language? It is true that you can find this: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF- 8&q=Kv%C4%9B&btnG=Search. But if you look at this carefully, these examples are *computer* lists. Czech orthographic standard says this: "Např. Smetana se narodil r. 1824 v Litomyšli. - V Praze 17. listopadu 1989; viz Jungmannův Slovník V, 113 = Jungmannův Slovník, díl V, strana 113; § 9 odst. 2 písm. a) zákona č. 87/1991 Sb.; Praha 4-Nusle, Za Zelenou liškou 17; pošta Praha 36 apod. Jestliže se v datu označuje den a měsíc jen číslicemi, píše se za nimi tečka: 8. 5. 1945 nebo 8. V. 1945; je-li však den a měsíc psán pomocí lomítka, tečky za číslicemi se nepíšou: 8/5 1945 nebo 8/V 1945." http://www.pravidla.cz/vice.php?cose=6 In my view Wikipedia should respect native speakers. Is petition of Czech Wikipedians to change in LanguageCs.php 'jan' => "1.", 'feb' => "2.", 'mar' => "3.", 'apr' => "4.", 'may' => "5.", 'jun' => "6.", 'jul' => "7.", 'aug' => "8.", 'sep' => "9.", 'oct' => "10.", 'nov' => "11.", 'dec' => "12.", really needed? Yours truly, Vít Zvánovec
Vít Zvánovec wrote:
In my view Wikipedia should respect native speakers. Is petition of Czech Wikipedians to change in LanguageCs.php 'jan' => "1.", [etc.] really needed?
No, as I said, it's not. Just define your date formats in such a way that they never use the abbreviated month names, and you won't need them.
Timwi
Vít Zvánovec wrote:
Dear colleague, you have written:
However copious the examples, and whatever the current practice, it is not accurate to say that these abbreviations do not exist. I do have the book "Anglo-American Cataloging Rules" (for libraries) which lists these for several languages, including Czech.
Could you be more precise? What does this book exactly say about Czech language? It is true that you can find this: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=Kv%C4%9B&b....
But if you look at this carefully, these examples are *computer* lists. Czech orthographic standard says this: "Např. Smetana se narodil r. 1824 v Litomyšli. - V Praze 17. listopadu 1989; viz Jungmannův Slovník V, 113 = Jungmannův Slovník, díl V, strana 113; § 9 odst. 2 písm. a) zákona č. 87/1991 Sb.; Praha 4-Nusle, Za Zelenou liškou 17; pošta Praha 36 apod. Jestliže se v datu označuje den a měsíc jen číslicemi, píše se za nimi tečka: 8. 5. 1945 nebo 8. V. 1945; je-li však den a měsíc psán pomocí lomítka, tečky za číslicemi se nepíšou: 8/5 1945 nebo 8/V 1945." http://www.pravidla.cz/vice.php?cose=6 In my view Wikipedia should respect native speakers. Is petition of Czech Wikipedians to change in LanguageCs.php
The book is used by libraries, mostly in English speaking countries, to instruct how books should be described in library catalogues. The big problem in English is with the American numerical Month/Day/Year representation of dates. This technique is contrary to what everybody else does. Librarians, to avoid ambiguities, do not use numerical representations for months. Thus, for situations where the months do not need to be spelled in full, they provide a series of abbriviations. For Czech they give
Jan. = "led." Feb. = "ún." Mar. = "břez." Apr. = "dub." May = "květ." Jun. = "červ." Jul. = "červen." Aug. = "srp," Sep. = "zàří" Oct. = "říj." Nov. = "list." Dec. = "pros." http://games.tiscali.cz/flashpoint/news.asp?r=2003&m=1 All begin with lower case letters as shown. The book goes on to give similar abbreviations in 27 other languages, all but one of which are used in Europe. My complaint before was with the simple statement that such abbreviations "do not exist". I have no intent to involve myself with how the Czech Wikipedians resolve the issue. My personal preference remains to have the ISO standard format for dates (YYYY-MM-DD) but I have no illusion about this idea finding acceptance from most English speakers. Arguments can be made for both abbreviated and numeric representations for months, and in the former Czechoslovakia numbers would have avoided any requirements to choose between different Czech and Slovak forms. For you the abbreviations might be most useful in dealing with confused expatriates who are now living in the United States. :-)
I hope that this better clarifies my position.
Ec
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