Hello,
In the new default skin, the Alt-B key combination seems to bound to the "what links here" function. Alt-B is normally the shortcut to the bookmarks, at least in my browser (Mozilla Firefox). I find the binding to "what links here" rather annoying, because it blocks me from a keyboard shortcut. I doubt that I'm the only one annoyed by this.
I suggest that the Alt-B key mapping be dropped or changed to something else.
Troels Arvin wrote:
In the new default skin, the Alt-B key combination seems to bound to the "what links here" function. Alt-B is normally the shortcut to the bookmarks,
Press Alt, release it, and then press B.
I suggest that the Alt-B key mapping be dropped or changed to something else.
I'm sure you realise that if we did this, then other people would complain about other shortcuts, and very quickly we would have no letters left.
Timwi
Timwi timwi@gmx.net writes:
I'm sure you realise that if we did this, then other people would complain about other shortcuts, and very quickly we would have no letters left.
that's it. it is plain wrong to steal users' shortcuts. By default, please disable this bug... feature. I don't know what Alt-A now does but it surely does not "Select All" any longer :-(
What can I do to get rid of them?
Karl Eichwalder wrote:
Timwi timwi@gmx.net writes:
I'm sure you realise that if we did this, then other people would complain about other shortcuts, and very quickly we would have no letters left.
that's it. it is plain wrong to steal users' shortcuts. By default, please disable this bug... feature. I don't know what Alt-A now does but it surely does not "Select All" any longer :-(
"Select All" is Ctrl+A, not Alt+A, and is not overridable with website shortcuts, nor is any other direct keyboard shortcut (at least in Firefox), because they all involve Ctrl.
The only things that are interfered with are the menus. I figure that this is a minor issue. Keyboard freaks tend to use direct keyboard shortcuts instead of going through the menus (e.g. "Ctrl+D" instead of "Alt+B, A"), while non-keyboard freaks tend to use the mouse anyway. Those that really really insist on using the menus through the keyboard can still use the workaround I described (press Alt and release it, then press B). It's not even any more key presses; it's only a matter of getting used to it.
What can I do to get rid of them?
I think it is possible with JavaScript (using [[User:Yourusername/monobook.js]]), but I'm not an expert at this. Someone who is should probably reply and explain it.
Timwi
Timwi wrote:
"Select All" is Ctrl+A, not Alt+A, and is not overridable with website shortcuts, nor is any other direct keyboard shortcut (at least in Firefox), because they all involve Ctrl.
No, "Select All" is Alt+A, not Ctrl+A, and the website currently overrides it, which is quite irritating. This is using Firefox 0.8 under Linux. Perhaps it is Ctrl+A under other operating systems, which is the source of the confusion?
(FWIW, other direct keyboard shortcuts in Firefox's default bindings under Linux involving Alt include Alt-leftarrow [back], Alt-rightarrow [forward], and Alt-home [go to homepage], and probably some others I'm missing in my quick scan of the menus).
-Mark
Delirium wrote:
No, "Select All" is Alt+A, not Ctrl+A, and the website currently overrides it, which is quite irritating. This is using Firefox 0.8 under Linux. Perhaps it is Ctrl+A under other operating systems, which is the source of the confusion?
Hmm... checking my copy. Ctrl+A does do select all on a web page, but not in a text edit field. There it goes to the beginning of the current line (like it does in Safari, until MediaWiki goes and overrides it with 'link to article page'). Alt+A does indeed select all in a text edit field in Firefox 0.8/linux.
Key bindings suck; there just aren't enough keys. :P
To recap: on Windows/Linux most browsers use 'alt' for page-defined access keys. Page-defined access keys may conflict with and override menubar shortcuts (alt+F for 'File') or sometimes other shortcuts (alt+A for Select All)
On Mac most browsers use 'control' for access keys. Page-defined access keys may conflict with and override emacs-style keybindings for text edit fields (control+A for 'go to beginning of line'). Several people have complained about this conflict as well, and it's been biting me lately though I hadn't noticed during testing.
Keys that are probably problematic and should be avoided include:
A (F&avorites / beginning of line / select all) B (&Bookmarks / back) D (delete) E (&Edit / end of line) F (&File / forward) G (&Go) H (&Help / backspace) K (delete to end of line) N (next line) O (newline?) T (&Tools) V (&View / end of file) Y (paste)
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Delirium wrote:
Timwi wrote: No, "Select All" is Alt+A, not Ctrl+A, and the website currently overrides it, which is quite irritating. This is using Firefox 0.8 under Linux. Perhaps it is Ctrl+A under other operating systems, which is the source of the confusion?
How accesskeys are implemented, including whether or not they override existing shortcuts, is up to the browser. There are several bugs open surrounding Firefox's accesskeys, for several different OSes. (On Mac it seems accesskeys do not override Firefox shortcuts.) It's in Firefox and other browsers that conflicts need to be sorted out, not on websites providing accesskeys.
My only complaint is that site says “Alt A”, etc, when accesskeys can in fact be implemented with any modifier. On Firefox Mac the default is ctrl. (I don't have any better ideas, though. Really, again, it should probably be the browser's job to tell me what the accesskeys + modifiers are for a page. In the mean time, I'm happy with it saying alt since that is the most common modifier.)
Nathan
Delirium wrote:
No, "Select All" is Alt+A, not Ctrl+A, and the website currently overrides it, which is quite irritating. This is using Firefox 0.8 under Linux. Perhaps it is Ctrl+A under other operating systems, which is the source of the confusion?
Brion mentioned that you're talking about "Select All" in a textfield, not the website. In such a case, I always use Ctrl+Home, Ctrl+Shift+End... :-p
(FWIW, other direct keyboard shortcuts in Firefox's default bindings under Linux involving Alt include Alt-leftarrow [back], Alt-rightarrow [forward], and Alt-home [go to homepage], and probably some others I'm missing in my quick scan of the menus).
None of those are overridable by websites.
Timwi
Timwi wrote:
Delirium wrote:
No, "Select All" is Alt+A, not Ctrl+A, and the website currently overrides it, which is quite irritating. This is using Firefox 0.8 under Linux. Perhaps it is Ctrl+A under other operating systems, which is the source of the confusion?
Brion mentioned that you're talking about "Select All" in a textfield, not the website. In such a case, I always use Ctrl+Home, Ctrl+Shift+End... :-p
In my install, Alt+A does select all on a website too. If you pull down the "Edit" menu, "Alt+A" is what's written next to "Select All". It does appear that Ctrl+A also works on websites, but this doesn't seem to be documented anywhere in the Firefox UI, and certainly isn't what users would be expected to use, given that it's not what's written as the keyboard shortcut next to "Select All" in the menu.
-Mark
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:59 -0500, Delirium wrote:
To switch them off, drop
ta = false;
in your monobook.js.
Can this become a checkbox option in the user preferences menu at some point in the future?
Would be a useful thing certainly, and probably not too hard to do. The newly-added generated js is already prepared for this. I've changed the default accesskeys in the meantime to use
content tab/article: c related changes : k (formerly c)
So the alt-a mozilla conflict is gone.
Gabriel Wicke
Gabriel Wicke wrote:
Would be a useful thing certainly, and probably not too hard to do. The newly-added generated js is already prepared for this. I've changed the default accesskeys in the meantime to use
content tab/article: c related changes : k (formerly c)
So the alt-a mozilla conflict is gone.
control+k conflicts with an alternate (but used by some, particularly power users) 'cut' command on Macintosh.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
I'd just like to extend a public apology to Gabriel for my being snappy over the access keys today. There's still work to be done (as always!) but we're making improvements, thanks in no small part to the huge amounts of great work you've been putting in to the project.
Details are for constructive discussion, not bickering! I withdraw my objections until such time as I'm able to Show The Code and make further improvements myself.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Gabriel Wicke lists@wikidev.net writes:
To switch them off, drop
ta = false;
in your monobook.js.
thanks for advise. Unfortunately, it does not work for me - even after clearing the cache. Is there a syntax error? :
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Keichwa/monobook.js
Karl Eichwalder ke@gnu.franken.de writes:
Gabriel Wicke lists@wikidev.net writes:
To switch them off, drop
ta = false;
in your monobook.js.
thanks for advise. Unfortunately, it does not work for me - even after clearing the cache. Is there a syntax error? :
Please, help. From where can I copy monobook.js that disables these shortcut assignments for Mozilla reliably?
On Sun, 2004-06-20 at 10:36 +0200, Karl Eichwalder wrote:
Karl Eichwalder ke@gnu.franken.de writes:
Gabriel Wicke lists@wikidev.net writes:
To switch them off, drop
ta = false;
in your monobook.js.
thanks for advise. Unfortunately, it does not work for me - even after clearing the cache. Is there a syntax error? :
Please, help. From where can I copy monobook.js that disables these shortcut assignments for Mozilla reliably?
Works fine for me with Firefox, did you reload after changing monobook. js?
Gabriel Wicke
Gabriel Wicke lists@wikidev.net writes:
On Sun, 2004-06-20 at 10:36 +0200, Karl Eichwalder wrote:
Gabriel Wicke lists@wikidev.net writes:
To switch them off, drop
ta = false;
in your monobook.js.
Works fine for me with Firefox, did you reload after changing monobook. js?
It works for Alt-B, but Alt-F still does not work.
Karl Eichwalder ke@gnu.franken.de writes:
Gabriel Wicke lists@wikidev.net writes:
On Sun, 2004-06-20 at 10:36 +0200, Karl Eichwalder wrote:
Gabriel Wicke lists@wikidev.net writes:
To switch them off, drop
ta = false;
in your monobook.js.
Works fine for me with Firefox, did you reload after changing monobook. js?
It works for Alt-B, but Alt-F still does not work.
Alt-F is still stolen by the UI (User Interface) - please acknowledge the problem.
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 14:30 +0200, Troels Arvin wrote:
Hello,
In the new default skin, the Alt-B key combination seems to bound to the "what links here" function. Alt-B is normally the shortcut to the bookmarks, at least in my browser (Mozilla Firefox). I find the binding to "what links here" rather annoying, because it blocks me from a keyboard shortcut. I doubt that I'm the only one annoyed by this.
I suggest that the Alt-B key mapping be dropped or changed to something else.
You can try the new accesskey system i wrote in the last days at http://wikidev.net. Changing them is a matter of changing the array that defines them in your user js:
ta['ca-nstab-main'] = new Array('a','View the content page'); ta['ca-nstab-user'] = new Array('a','View the user page'); ta['ca-nstab-media'] = new Array('a','View the media page'); ta['ca-nstab-special'] = new Array('','This is a special page, you can't edit the page itself.'); ta['ca-nstab-wp'] = new Array('a','View the project page'); ta['ca-nstab-image'] = new Array('a','View the image page'); ta['ca-nstab-mediawiki'] = new Array('a','View the system message'); ta['ca-nstab-template'] = new Array('a','View the template'); ta['ca-nstab-help'] = new Array('a','View the help page'); ta['ca-nstab-category'] = new Array('a','View the category page');
Swap the 'a' for something else and you're set.
Gabriel Wicke
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org