On some of the Wikipedia sites, there are some messages near the top of each page. These messages change every 10 or so seconds. The problem is the number of lines in each of the changing messages is not the same.
This causes the entire page to jerk up and down the screen every 10 or so seconds. One might be reading many screenfulls below, but still the page jerks up and down. I've never seen anything like that in the history of WWW.
You might want to have a look at it, or forward my message to those who are to blame.
Here's some stuff from 'view source' from nearby where the cause is.
document.writeln('<table width="100%" id="mw-dismissable-notice"><tr><td width="80%">'+siteNoticeValue+'</td>'); document.writeln('<td width="20%" align="right">[<a href="javascript:dismissNotice();">'+msgClose+'</a>]</td></tr></table>'); } /* ]]> */ </script><table style="display: none;" id="mw-dismissable-notice" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="80%"><div id="localNotice"></div></td> <td width="20%" align="right">[<a href="javascript:dismissNotice();">關閉</a>]</td></tr></tbody></table> <table id="asn-dismissable-notice" style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% transparent;" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td><div style="display: block;" id="advancedSiteNotices">請參與<b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:%E6%8A%95%E7%A5%A8/%E5%90%84%E4%B8%BB%E9%A1%8C%E4%BD%9C%E5%93%81%E6%A0%BC%E5%BC%8F%E7%9A%84%E6%A8%99%E6%BA%96" title="Wikipedia:投票/各主題作品格式的標準">各主題作品格式的標準</a></b>的表決。</div></td><td>[<a href="#">關閉</a>]</td></tr></tbody></table></div>
<!-- /sitenotice --> <!-- firstHeading --> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading"><div style="float: right;"></div>台南市公車</h1> <!-- /firstHeading --> <!-- bodyContent --> <div id="bodyContent"> <!-- tagline --> <div id="siteSub">維基百科，自由的百科全書</div>
<!-- /tagline --> <!-- subtitle --> <div id="contentSub" dir="ltr" lang="zh-tw">（重定向自<a href="/w/index.php?title=%E8%87%BA%E5%8D%97%E5%B8%82%E5%85%AC%E8%BB%8A&redirect=no" title="臺南市公車">臺南市公車</a>）</div> <!-- /subtitle --> <!-- jumpto --> <div id="jump-to-nav"> 跳轉到: <a href="#mw-head">導覽</a>, <a href="#p-search">搜尋</a>
</div> <!-- /jumpto --> <!-- bodytext --> <table class="infobox" style="width: 20em; font-size: 95%; text-align: left;">
On 30/09/11 14:45, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
On some of the Wikipedia sites, there are some messages near the top of each page. These messages change every 10 or so seconds. The problem is the number of lines in each of the changing messages is not the same.
Which wikipedia sites exactly? At least give ONE example.
You probably want to open a bug report on bugzilla too :-)
By the source code, I'd guess zh.wp
Regardless, on that bug report you might want to add the browser you are using (With version) and anything else you can think of that might come into play (like Greasemonkey type extensions, for Firefox)
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:35, Ashar Voultoiz hashar+wmf@free.fr wrote:
On 30/09/11 14:45, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
On some of the Wikipedia sites, there are some messages near the top of each page. These messages change every 10 or so seconds. The problem is the number of lines in each of the changing messages is not the same.
Which wikipedia sites exactly? At least give ONE example.
You probably want to open a bug report on bugzilla too :-)
-- Ashar Voultoiz
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
On some of the Wikipedia sites, there are some messages near the top of each page. These messages change every 10 or so seconds. The problem is the number of lines in each of the changing messages is not the same.
This causes the entire page to jerk up and down the screen every 10 or so seconds. One might be reading many screenfulls below, but still the page jerks up and down. I've never seen anything like that in the history of WWW.
You might want to have a look at it, or forward my message to those who are to blame.
Do they change in the same page view, or when changing pages? (I have seen the later, when several campaigns are enabled, but the former shouldn't happen)
Platonides wrote:
jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
On some of the Wikipedia sites, there are some messages near the top of each page. [...] This causes the entire page to jerk up and down the screen...
Do they change in the same page view, or when changing pages? (I have seen the later, when several campaigns are enabled, but the former shouldn't happen)
I noticed something similar a few weeks ago. It didn't quite match jidanni's description, but it was certainly annoying. The top-of-page message -- it might have been one about the image tagging campaign -- was JavaScript-enabled, with a show/hide button. And, for me at least, it rendered initially in one state, and then, after the entire rest of the page had loaded and rendered, some last bit of JavaScript seemed to run, and flip the show/collapse state. By now, typically, I already had my mouse over some regular link or edit button I intended to click, but just as I did so, the page jumped by a few lines, and I'd miss.
Login to http://zh.wikipedia.org/ and stare at the screen for a few seconds. Wait, it is probably due to me User:Jidanni being a member of some club. Anyway, there is no way for a normal user to file a proper bug report about it, as it is all hidden in javascript that he does not see. I'll contact some of those club members about this problem.
Note that maybe their browsers have a wide enough screen so the line counts of the messages are the same so they don't notice the problem.
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 1:15 PM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
Anyway, there is no way for a normal user to file a proper bug report about it, as it is all hidden in javascript that he does not see.
All users are welcome to file bugs at bugzilla, and this method is frequently pushed/mentioned to users of all communities (although there might be some language difficulties for users of the non English language). Also most communities have a central noticeboard (For example: [[Wikipedia:Village Pump]] on the English Wikipedia) where they can raise these issues.
I see what he's talking about. The page loads, then the site notice javascript loads (pushing the page down) then the central notice loads.
It is rather obnoxious that the central notice loads a noticeable amount _after_ everything else. The div (or what ever container it is) could at least be pre-load to the objects size when it loads.
-Jon
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 20:15, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
Login to http://zh.wikipedia.org/ and stare at the screen for a few seconds. Wait, it is probably due to me User:Jidanni being a member of some club. Anyway, there is no way for a normal user to file a proper bug report about it, as it is all hidden in javascript that he does not see. I'll contact some of those club members about this problem.
Note that maybe their browsers have a wide enough screen so the line counts of the messages are the same so they don't notice the problem.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
The central notice banner is only shown to logged in users. Why are we even loading the notice in a separate out of band http request. And not bothering to cache it at that.
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
On 11-09-30 10:27 PM, Jon Davis wrote:
I see what he's talking about. The page loads, then the site notice javascript loads (pushing the page down) then the central notice loads.
It is rather obnoxious that the central notice loads a noticeable amount _after_ everything else. The div (or what ever container it is) could at least be pre-load to the objects size when it loads.
-Jon
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 20:15, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
Login to http://zh.wikipedia.org/ and stare at the screen for a few seconds. Wait, it is probably due to me User:Jidanni being a member of some club. Anyway, there is no way for a normal user to file a proper bug report about it, as it is all hidden in javascript that he does not see. I'll contact some of those club members about this problem.
Note that maybe their browsers have a wide enough screen so the line counts of the messages are the same so they don't notice the problem.
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Daniel Friesen lists@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote:
The central notice banner is only shown to logged in users. Why are we even loading the notice in a separate out of band http request. And not bothering to cache it at that.
It is cacheable (public, max-age=300, s-maxage=300) but for some reason my browser (FF 6.0.1) isn't caching it. There are all sorts of reasons CN needs to load the notice using JS, at least for anons. For logged-in users, I guess it might be possible to move the logic server-side, but that would be kind of stupid if you can't also do that for logged-out users. A height reservation would probably be best.
Roan
On 11-10-01 01:07 AM, Roan Kattouw wrote:
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Daniel Friesen lists@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote:
The central notice banner is only shown to logged in users. Why are we even loading the notice in a separate out of band http request. And not bothering to cache it at that.
It is cacheable (public, max-age=300, s-maxage=300) but for some reason my browser (FF 6.0.1) isn't caching it. There are all sorts of reasons CN needs to load the notice using JS, at least for anons. For logged-in users, I guess it might be possible to move the logic server-side, but that would be kind of stupid if you can't also do that for logged-out users. A height reservation would probably be best.
Roan
Actually, it seams to be:
On secure I get: Cache-Control: public, s-maxage=600, max-age=0 There is a Firefox bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345181 It's marked fixed but I'm not so sure.
On normal en.wp I get: Cache-Control: private, s-maxage=0, max-age=0, must-revalidate
There's also no ETag or Last-Modified so even if there is a max-age that must-revalidate could have the effect of nullifying the max-age.
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roan Kattouw" roan.kattouw@gmail.com
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Daniel Friesen lists@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote:
The central notice banner is only shown to logged in users. Why are we even loading the notice in a separate out of band http request. And not bothering to cache it at that.
It is cacheable (public, max-age=300, s-maxage=300) but for some reason my browser (FF 6.0.1) isn't caching it. There are all sorts of reasons CN needs to load the notice using JS, at least for anons. For logged-in users, I guess it might be possible to move the logic server-side, but that would be kind of stupid if you can't also do that for logged-out users. A height reservation would probably be best.
If you could do that so that it worked for people with unexpectedly large type sizes set in their browser (ie: and didn't spill out of your box overtop of the rest of the page) that would be great.
I'm not sure it's possible, though; is it?
Cheers, -- jr 'Ctrl-+++++' a
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26234 might be relevant.
Jidanni, are you using a text browser? That would probably explain the particular problem you're encountering.
On 11-10-08 04:03 PM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
"BL" == Benjamin Lees emufarmers@gmail.com writes:
BL> Jidanni, are you using a text browser? That would probably explain BL> the particular problem you're encountering. Can text browsers even see any javascript site notices? No.
;) I think you underestimate text browsers. http://freshmeat.net/projects/links/
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
Indeed, next thing you know it will jerk the ones mouse pointer between a [ ]Permanently accept [ ]Permanently reject box just as one is clicking.
"DF" == Daniel Friesen lists@nadir-seen-fire.com writes:
DF> ;) I think you underestimate text browsers. DF> http://freshmeat.net/projects/links/ Did they ever fix links to be able to browse $ links http://zh.wikipedia.org/ or even $ links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma properly?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Platonides" Platonides@gmail.com
Do they change in the same page view, or when changing pages? (I have seen the later, when several campaigns are enabled, but the former shouldn't happen)
In the past -- especially because I'm prone to run Firefox in "Zoom text only" mode, 4 or 5 steps up -- I have seen top-of-page inserts do this to pages, as they rotate. Generally, it's fundraising inserts.
If I see it again, I'll hang a ticket on it.
Cheers, - jra
On 09/30/2011 02:45 PM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
On some of the Wikipedia sites, there are some messages near the top of each page. These messages change every 10 or so seconds. The problem is the number of lines in each of the changing messages is not the same.
This causes the entire page to jerk up and down the screen every 10 or so seconds. One might be reading many screenfulls below, but still the page jerks up and down. I've never seen anything like that in the history of WWW.
I have not seen this happening every 10 seconds, but it's bad enough that the banner or site notice arrives 10 seconds after the first load, and jerks the page around. It should be possible to allow a fixed size space for the banner, and allow it to be delayed without jerking. This includes the rearrangement of the menu to the left, and extra tabs.
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 2:35 AM, Lars Aronsson lars@aronsson.se wrote:
I have not seen this happening every 10 seconds, but it's bad enough that the banner or site notice arrives 10 seconds after the first load, and jerks the page around. It should be possible to allow a fixed size space for the banner, and allow it to be delayed without jerking. This includes the rearrangement of the menu to the left, and extra tabs.
It was "every 10 seconds", but I have tweaked site js (as a local sysop on zhwiki) a little to avoid that. Now instead, it jerks only when a message occupying more space shows up. (ie. it only jerks down but never jerks up)
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