The new diff colors have been temporarily reverted. Trevor and Timo plan to spend some time looking into the subject. See: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/112750
So we are back again to bike shedding the diff colors :-)
The revert reopens bug 11374 which is about red text on green background. Fix by MaxSem, in r94429, was to make that text black with a different background.
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/11374 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/94429
Can we at least put that fix back?
As for the diff colors, we had a long discussion on r105280 as well as on IRC. It would have been great to ask around before reverting that change, I am not sure it was that urgent. Anyway, can you please poke Brandon Harris about it? He explained the choice of colors on r106884:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/106884#c28165
The long discussion thread about having green on left or right side. You can probably skip that read. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/105280
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 4:35 AM, Antoine Musso hashar+wmf@free.fr wrote:
As for the diff colors, we had a long discussion on r105280 as well as on IRC. It would have been great to ask around before reverting that change, I am not sure it was that urgent. Anyway, can you please poke Brandon Harris about it? He explained the choice of colors on r106884:
For what it's worth, there was a pretty heated discussion about this again last night on IRC--complaints came in and then Trevor voiced concern about the decisions made in 1.19 so Timo reverted. You must've been asleep ;-)
I pointed out that it would've been nice if Trevor had commented back when this was going on, and he said he honestly missed the discussion or he would've joined at the time.
Like I said on IRC yesterday: I don't care what colors we choose. At all. I *do* think there should be consensus before moving forward though, and perhaps it'd be worth writing up an RFC to get wider input and allow everyone to voice their opinions at length (bugzilla is a terrible forum for this).
As trunk stands, we've restored the status quo from 1.18 and below, so I think it's best to keep things as-is until a decision is made.
-Chad
PS: These are just my common sense suggestions, feel free to ignore them...I have no intentions of involving myself in actual debate.
Timo and I are going to come up with a patch that can solve the same problems that these reverted changes were trying to solve, and do so without regressing the accessibility of the site. I noted that the changes broke at least two rules:
1. Don't rely on color along 2. Contrast ratio between background and foreground colors on the changed text portion of a diff is not high enough
Timo and I are coming up with a patch today.
This is not bike shedding. We are talking about colors. But it's not to do with personal preferences. It's to do with functionality and accessibility. The patch offered new functionality by rendering whitespace changes and making it easier to see a changed period or other small punctuation. The patch also violated some accessibility guidelines[1].
- Trevor
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_interface_guidelines#Accessibility
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 4:35 AM, Antoine Musso hashar+wmf@free.fr wrote:
As for the diff colors, we had a long discussion on r105280 as well as on IRC. It would have been great to ask around before reverting that
change,
I am not sure it was that urgent. Anyway, can you please poke Brandon Harris about it? He explained the choice of colors on r106884:
For what it's worth, there was a pretty heated discussion about this again last night on IRC--complaints came in and then Trevor voiced concern about the decisions made in 1.19 so Timo reverted. You must've been asleep ;-)
I pointed out that it would've been nice if Trevor had commented back when this was going on, and he said he honestly missed the discussion or he would've joined at the time.
Like I said on IRC yesterday: I don't care what colors we choose. At all. I *do* think there should be consensus before moving forward though, and perhaps it'd be worth writing up an RFC to get wider input and allow everyone to voice their opinions at length (bugzilla is a terrible forum for this).
As trunk stands, we've restored the status quo from 1.18 and below, so I think it's best to keep things as-is until a decision is made.
-Chad
PS: These are just my common sense suggestions, feel free to ignore them...I have no intentions of involving myself in actual debate.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Am 01.03.2012 19:18, schrieb Trevor Parscal:
- Contrast ratio between background and foreground colors on the changed
text portion of a diff is not high enough
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors#X11_color_names dark background colours ==> bold white (text) colour
On 01.03.2012, 22:38 Thomas wrote:
Am 01.03.2012 19:18, schrieb Trevor Parscal:
- Contrast ratio between background and foreground colors on the changed
text portion of a diff is not high enough
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors#X11_color_names dark background colours ==> bold white (text) colour
Aieeeee! :(
I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
- Trevor
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Max Semenik maxsem.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
On 01.03.2012, 22:38 Thomas wrote:
Am 01.03.2012 19:18, schrieb Trevor Parscal:
- Contrast ratio between background and foreground colors on the
changed
text portion of a diff is not high enough
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors#X11_color_names dark background colours ==> bold white (text) colour
Aieeeee! :(
-- Best regards, Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
I said I don't care, but I do now. +1 on this design.
-Chad On Mar 1, 2012 4:38 PM, "Trevor Parscal" tparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
- Trevor
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Max Semenik maxsem.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
On 01.03.2012, 22:38 Thomas wrote:
Am 01.03.2012 19:18, schrieb Trevor Parscal:
- Contrast ratio between background and foreground colors on the
changed
text portion of a diff is not high enough
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors#X11_color_names dark background colours ==> bold white (text) colour
Aieeeee! :(
-- Best regards, Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal tparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
- d.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum
On 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscaltparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
- d.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
What about adding a couple of style markers on the body tag? For example classes for "high-contrast", "avoid-red-green", "avoid-green-blue", "avoid-red-yellow"... or?
Or perhaps as additional styles stright from the mediawiki-space, that way the accessability issues can be crowdsourced?
There was also a question about scaling of content text on OTRS some time ago. I'm not quite sure but I think the idea was to use an other font in the content as he had to read that, while all the other text from the portlets he learned over time so if that text was difficult to read it didn't do so much.
The text size proposal was to add simple scaling buttons to step up the text, and I would propose to store the set size in local storage. The same applies to color I believe, as it should be possible to change it without logging in.
At nowp there is a link in the sidebar to a page describing how visually impaired can chage skin. It uses the simpleskin http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Svaksynte&useskin=si...
John
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Brandon Harris bharris@wikimedia.org wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum
On 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscaltparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
- d.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Accessibility should not be a user preference.
I also do not like the idea of site specific text size change widgets: http://webaim.org/blog/web-accessibility-preferences-are-for-sissies/
If you want, I can even dig up the full discussion I had with CCA that ended in them dropping the text resize widget from their wiki's design ;).
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:19:48 -0800, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
What about adding a couple of style markers on the body tag? For example classes for "high-contrast", "avoid-red-green", "avoid-green-blue", "avoid-red-yellow"... or?
Or perhaps as additional styles stright from the mediawiki-space, that way the accessability issues can be crowdsourced?
There was also a question about scaling of content text on OTRS some time ago. I'm not quite sure but I think the idea was to use an other font in the content as he had to read that, while all the other text from the portlets he learned over time so if that text was difficult to read it didn't do so much.
The text size proposal was to add simple scaling buttons to step up the text, and I would propose to store the set size in local storage. The same applies to color I believe, as it should be possible to change it without logging in.
At nowp there is a link in the sidebar to a page describing how visually impaired can chage skin. It uses the simpleskin http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Svaksynte&useskin=si...
John
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Brandon Harris bharris@wikimedia.org wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsumOn 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscaltparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
- d.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
You can not design for one size fits all when it comes to accessibility, its simply not possible.
John
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:03 AM, Daniel Friesen lists@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote:
Accessibility should not be a user preference.
I also do not like the idea of site specific text size change widgets: http://webaim.org/blog/web-accessibility-preferences-are-for-sissies/
If you want, I can even dig up the full discussion I had with CCA that ended in them dropping the text resize widget from their wiki's design ;).
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:19:48 -0800, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
What about adding a couple of style markers on the body tag? For example classes for "high-contrast", "avoid-red-green", "avoid-green-blue", "avoid-red-yellow"... or?
Or perhaps as additional styles stright from the mediawiki-space, that way the accessability issues can be crowdsourced?
There was also a question about scaling of content text on OTRS some time ago. I'm not quite sure but I think the idea was to use an other font in the content as he had to read that, while all the other text from the portlets he learned over time so if that text was difficult to read it didn't do so much.
The text size proposal was to add simple scaling buttons to step up the text, and I would propose to store the set size in local storage. The same applies to color I believe, as it should be possible to change it without logging in.
At nowp there is a link in the sidebar to a page describing how visually impaired can chage skin. It uses the simpleskin
http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Svaksynte&useskin=si...
John
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Brandon Harris bharris@wikimedia.org wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum
On 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscaltparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
- d.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
That's what browser preferences are for. NOT website preferences.
A lot of work has gone into technologies that allow browsers to display the same page in different ways to allow the people with different accessibility issues that conflict with each other to read the same content.
The moment you're trying to do 'accessibility' by means of a preference for your website, you are no longer doing accessibility. Accessibility is not a site preference, it's a fact that applies to the user browsing the entire Internet. Accessibility is not fixed if the user has to change a preference at every single website they visit.
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 00:56:27 -0800, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
You can not design for one size fits all when it comes to accessibility, its simply not possible.
John
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:03 AM, Daniel Friesen lists@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote:
Accessibility should not be a user preference.
I also do not like the idea of site specific text size change widgets: http://webaim.org/blog/web-accessibility-preferences-are-for-sissies/
If you want, I can even dig up the full discussion I had with CCA that ended in them dropping the text resize widget from their wiki's design ;).
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:19:48 -0800, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
What about adding a couple of style markers on the body tag? For example classes for "high-contrast", "avoid-red-green", "avoid-green-blue", "avoid-red-yellow"... or?
Or perhaps as additional styles stright from the mediawiki-space, that way the accessability issues can be crowdsourced?
There was also a question about scaling of content text on OTRS some time ago. I'm not quite sure but I think the idea was to use an other font in the content as he had to read that, while all the other text from the portlets he learned over time so if that text was difficult to read it didn't do so much.
The text size proposal was to add simple scaling buttons to step up the text, and I would propose to store the set size in local storage. The same applies to color I believe, as it should be possible to change it without logging in.
At nowp there is a link in the sidebar to a page describing how visually impaired can chage skin. It uses the simpleskin
http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Svaksynte&useskin=si...
John
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Brandon Harris bharris@wikimedia.org wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsumOn 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscaltparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
- d.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Contact the organizations for visually impaired people, read W3 accessibility guidelines, and make sure the site works as far as possible. If anyone likes to nag on the browser folks for a better accessibility solution - fine - but fix the skins _now_ and don't wait for some future solution.
Thanks, thats all from me.
John
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Daniel Friesen lists@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote:
That's what browser preferences are for. NOT website preferences.
A lot of work has gone into technologies that allow browsers to display the same page in different ways to allow the people with different accessibility issues that conflict with each other to read the same content.
The moment you're trying to do 'accessibility' by means of a preference for your website, you are no longer doing accessibility. Accessibility is not a site preference, it's a fact that applies to the user browsing the entire Internet. Accessibility is not fixed if the user has to change a preference at every single website they visit.
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 00:56:27 -0800, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
You can not design for one size fits all when it comes to accessibility, its simply not possible.
John
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:03 AM, Daniel Friesen lists@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote:
Accessibility should not be a user preference.
I also do not like the idea of site specific text size change widgets: http://webaim.org/blog/web-accessibility-preferences-are-for-sissies/
If you want, I can even dig up the full discussion I had with CCA that ended in them dropping the text resize widget from their wiki's design ;).
On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:19:48 -0800, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
What about adding a couple of style markers on the body tag? For example classes for "high-contrast", "avoid-red-green", "avoid-green-blue", "avoid-red-yellow"... or?
Or perhaps as additional styles stright from the mediawiki-space, that way the accessability issues can be crowdsourced?
There was also a question about scaling of content text on OTRS some time ago. I'm not quite sure but I think the idea was to use an other font in the content as he had to read that, while all the other text from the portlets he learned over time so if that text was difficult to read it didn't do so much.
The text size proposal was to add simple scaling buttons to step up the text, and I would propose to store the set size in local storage. The same applies to color I believe, as it should be possible to change it without logging in.
At nowp there is a link in the sidebar to a page describing how visually impaired can chage skin. It uses the simpleskin
http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Svaksynte&useskin=si...
John
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Brandon Harris bharris@wikimedia.org wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum
On 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscaltparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
> Screenshot of new diff styles: > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
- d.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
David Gerard wrote:
On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal tparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
I've been using http://cupcakeipsum.com/ lately, though it tends to make people hungry. :-)
MZMcBride
It's hipster lorem ipsum.
- Trevor
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 1:43 PM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal tparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
- d.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Le 01/03/12 22:38, Trevor Parscal a écrit :
I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
I must say you rocks. This make the diff page more pleasant to use and give it a modern taste.
Thanks 8-)
On 02-03-2012 23:31, Antoine Musso wrote:
Le 01/03/12 22:38, Trevor Parscal a écrit :
I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
I must say you rocks. This make the diff page more pleasant to use and give it a modern taste.
Thanks 8-)
I do have some issues. I like the general design, but spacing needs serious tweaking; there is too much space around the text. The outer border causes mis-alignment of text. And the borders for .diffchange overlaps text between two changes (1) (this could be solved by using top/bottom border only).
(1) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Diffs-r112853.png
Erwin - what you are seeing is very strange. I tried to re-create it, but you have other styles conflicting and causing problems. For instance, the use of red text for the changed text is gone int he latest code. You may also have other strange styles which may be affecting layout. Attached is how that changeset looked on my localhost.
- Trevor On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Erwin Dokter erwin@darcoury.nl wrote:
On 02-03-2012 23:31, Antoine Musso wrote:
Le 01/03/12 22:38, Trevor Parscal a écrit :
I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.**org/attachment.cgi?id=10148https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
I must say you rocks. This make the diff page more pleasant to use and give it a modern taste.
Thanks 8-)
I do have some issues. I like the general design, but spacing needs serious tweaking; there is too much space around the text. The outer border causes mis-alignment of text. And the borders for .diffchange overlaps text between two changes (1) (this could be solved by using top/bottom border only).
(1) http://commons.wikimedia.org/**wiki/File:Diffs-r112853.pnghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Diffs-r112853.png
-- Erwin Dokter
______________________________**_________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 03-03-2012 01:11, Trevor Parscal wrote:
Erwin - what you are seeing is very strange. I tried to re-create it, but you have other styles conflicting and causing problems. For instance, the use of red text for the changed text is gone int he latest code. You may also have other strange styles which may be affecting layout. Attached is how that changeset looked on my localhost.
- Trevor
The only styling that may be conflicting is the original core styling. I'll try to filter that out and post the result. BTW, my screenshot was taken with Chrome 17.
On 03-03-2012 01:11, Trevor Parscal wrote:
Erwin - what you are seeing is very strange. I tried to re-create it, but you have other styles conflicting and causing problems. For instance, the use of red text for the changed text is gone int he latest code. You may also have other strange styles which may be affecting layout. Attached is how that changeset looked on my localhost.
- Trevor
The red font color was the only conflicting style. The misalignment is apparently a result of Chrome not handling the combined padding of the table cell and diffchange spans that contain one or more Tabs.
Static diff with tabs: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Edokter/vector.css&diff=4...
Firefox does *not* show the problem. Even IE8 manages to display it correctly. So this is a Chrome bug we need to work around.
On 03-03-2012 09:35, Erwin Dokter wrote:
The red font color was the only conflicting style. The misalignment is apparently a result of Chrome not handling the combined padding of the table cell and diffchange spans that contain one or more Tabs.
To be more precise: any left-or right padding or border of the .diffchange will throw off the horizontal alignment in Chrome. The cell padding has no effect.
This can be fixed by moving the borders to top/bottom and removing any left/right padding from .diffchange.
Building upon Trevor's initial design, here's my take, which looks less bloated and offers a more consistent look. The .diffchange spans no longer have a left/right padding or border, ensuring proper display in Chrome, while maintaining proper word spacing.
(The dark 2px wide spaces are an unintended side effect of Chrome's border-radius rendering. Firefox shows only top/bottom border.)
http://windekind.demon.nl/images/Diffs-1.png
Thoughts?
Never happy with the first result, I did some more tweaking. There were too many lines and too thick borders. Also, background was not needed. So I removed those and only used a bottom border for .diffchange and gave the cells consistent styling.
http://windekind.demon.nl/images/Diffs-2.png
On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 10:32, Erwin Dokter erwin@darcoury.nl wrote:
Never happy with the first result, I did some more tweaking. There were too many lines and too thick borders. Also, background was not needed. So I removed those and only used a bottom border for .diffchange and gave the cells consistent styling.
Woudn't be possible to remove the top and bottom borders of the central td.diff-deletedline and td.diff-addedline 's of consecutive rows which are marked with "+" and "-"? E.g. between the first and the second orange rows, so that they are displayed as one only "block" - this may need removing the white-space between the affected rows (and the rounded corners).
See the attached image (an edited version of your screenshot).
Helder
On 04-03-2012 15:51, Helder wrote:
Woudn't be possible to remove the top and bottom borders of the central td.diff-deletedline and td.diff-addedline 's of consecutive rows which are marked with "+" and "-"? E.g. between the first and the second orange rows, so that they are displayed as one only "block" - this may need removing the white-space between the affected rows (and the rounded corners).
I don't think that's a good idea; each 'block' represent an added or remove *line*, and lines should stay distinctly separate. This is basically how diffs have always been displayed.
I also think it's not feasable, as the diff is built using a table, and as far as I know, individual cell spacing is not possible in tables.
Hi Erwin,
The change to diff blocks is an interesting idea. Could you submit a patch for this? (either on list or in the bug)
The different text highlighting style seems more controversial, so it might be better to keep that separate.
Rob
On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 5:32 AM, Erwin Dokter erwin@darcoury.nl wrote:
Never happy with the first result, I did some more tweaking. There were too many lines and too thick borders. Also, background was not needed. So I removed those and only used a bottom border for .diffchange and gave the cells consistent styling.
http://windekind.demon.nl/images/Diffs-2.png
-- Erwin Dokter
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 05-03-2012 20:10, Rob Lanphier wrote:
Hi Erwin,
The change to diff blocks is an interesting idea. Could you submit a patch for this? (either on list or in the bug)
The different text highlighting style seems more controversial, so it might be better to keep that separate.
Rob
I'm not submitting any more patches until there is some consensus. Apparently, my last submission blew up on IRC due to 'complaints' and was reverted as a result. Meanwhile, my current proposal seems to be ignored by those involved, so I'd really like some feedback.
My current diff CSS can be found in my vector.css on enwki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Edokter/vector.css).
Erwin,
I'm happy to continue working with you on this if you have more ideas. Please don't just give up because the process isn't perfect. It's our responsibility together as a community to continue improving it. I'm sorry if you haven't had a great experience so far with this. I am personally very pleased that someone (like you) is being persistent enough to get this matter some attention. MediaWiki's diff view has been a blight for ages, and I think we are getting really close to something solid.
I took your input, as well as that of others, and have submitted r113071 which I feel is the best version yet. See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11374#c45 for screenshots of how this looks in a variety of scenarios.
- Trevor
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Erwin Dokter erwin@darcoury.nl wrote:
On 05-03-2012 20:10, Rob Lanphier wrote:
Hi Erwin,
The change to diff blocks is an interesting idea. Could you submit a patch for this? (either on list or in the bug)
The different text highlighting style seems more controversial, so it might be better to keep that separate.
Rob
I'm not submitting any more patches until there is some consensus. Apparently, my last submission blew up on IRC due to 'complaints' and was reverted as a result. Meanwhile, my current proposal seems to be ignored by those involved, so I'd really like some feedback.
My current diff CSS can be found in my vector.css on enwki ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**User:Edokter/vector.csshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Edokter/vector.css ).
-- Erwin Dokter
______________________________**_________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 05-03-2012 20:51, Trevor Parscal wrote:
Erwin,
I'm happy to continue working with you on this if you have more ideas. Please don't just give up because the process isn't perfect. It's our responsibility together as a community to continue improving it. I'm sorry if you haven't had a great experience so far with this. I am personally very pleased that someone (like you) is being persistent enough to get this matter some attention. MediaWiki's diff view has been a blight for ages, and I think we are getting really close to something solid.
It's just a bit frustrating. Development cycles are long, communication is slow and decentralized.
I took your input, as well as that of others, and have submitted r113071 which I feel is the best version yet. See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11374#c45 for screenshots of how this looks in a variety of scenarios.
That looks very nice. No more diffchange borders then. I hope it still meets the accesability rules. Only thing I would change is make the gray background slightly lighter.
Is this planned to be rolled out, or are we waiting for 1.20? (In which case I can update the new diff gadget once the design is done.)
Erwin,
I changed it to from #f2f2f2 to #f3f3f3, which is the same as Vector uses on the sidebar and footer. I know it seems subtle, but it's actually more noticeable than you would expect due to where it falls on a monitor's gamma curve. Any lighter and many people's monitors will render it as white.
See r113098
- Trevor
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Erwin Dokter erwin@darcoury.nl wrote:
On 05-03-2012 20:51, Trevor Parscal wrote:
Erwin,
I'm happy to continue working with you on this if you have more ideas. Please don't just give up because the process isn't perfect. It's our responsibility together as a community to continue improving it. I'm sorry if you haven't had a great experience so far with this. I am personally very pleased that someone (like you) is being persistent enough to get this matter some attention. MediaWiki's diff view has been a blight for ages, and I think we are getting really close to something solid.
It's just a bit frustrating. Development cycles are long, communication is slow and decentralized.
I took your input, as well as that of others, and have submitted r113071
which I feel is the best version yet. See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.**org/show_bug.cgi?id=11374#c45https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11374#c45for screenshots of how this looks in a variety of scenarios.
That looks very nice. No more diffchange borders then. I hope it still meets the accesability rules. Only thing I would change is make the gray background slightly lighter.
Is this planned to be rolled out, or are we waiting for 1.20? (In which case I can update the new diff gadget once the design is done.)
-- Erwin Dokter
______________________________**_________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Trevor Parscal wrote:
I changed it to from #f2f2f2 to #f3f3f3, which is the same as Vector uses on the sidebar and footer. I know it seems subtle, but it's actually more noticeable than you would expect due to where it falls on a monitor's gamma curve. Any lighter and many people's monitors will render it as white.
See r113098
- Trevor
Actually, the default background color for the Vector sidebar and footer is #f6f6f6, which is still pretty distinct. I would use #f9f9f9; the default background color for wikitables.
Adding the borders to top/bottom is not a good thing though, because long changes result in ugly rendering with lots of parallel lines. I will look into the padding issue.
- Trevor
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 1:33 AM, Erwin Dokter erwin@darcoury.nl wrote:
On 03-03-2012 09:35, Erwin Dokter wrote:
The red font color was the only conflicting style. The misalignment is apparently a result of Chrome not handling the combined padding of the table cell and diffchange spans that contain one or more Tabs.
To be more precise: any left-or right padding or border of the .diffchange will throw off the horizontal alignment in Chrome. The cell padding has no effect.
This can be fixed by moving the borders to top/bottom and removing any left/right padding from .diffchange.
-- Erwin Dokter
______________________________**_________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Thursday, March 1, 2012, Trevor Parscal tparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
- Trevor
I *really* like this design. Much better than the current diff style, and not just for the color blind. ;-) Accentuating changed phrases more strongly and removing color where unnecessary makes it much easier to scan a diff.
Just my 2 cents,
Steven
As I've said eslewhere, using top/bottom borders is a problem with long changes (not shown in his screenshot) and should be avoided. The original design (r112836) had this flaw, and was later fixed (r112853).
The spacing issues need attention for sure, I will look at them today.
- Trevor
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.comwrote:
On Thursday, March 1, 2012, Trevor Parscal tparscal@wikimedia.org wrote:
I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
Screenshot of new diff styles: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
- Trevor
I *really* like this design. Much better than the current diff style, and not just for the color blind. ;-) Accentuating changed phrases more strongly and removing color where unnecessary makes it much easier to scan a diff.
Just my 2 cents,
Steven _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
