Hi!
Currently, when an editor create at some wikiproject an interwiki link using [[Lang:Project:Page|Text]] the readers get a link to a "Page" of "Project" (in the "Lang" language) and "Text" is shown in the link. Besides this: 1) The "title" attribute of the <a> element is equals to (something not very intuitive for readers): [[Lang:Project:Page]].
2) If "Text" is equals to "Page", and we want/need to show only the "Page" text, it is needed to use [[Lang:Project:Page|Page]] (although for local links [[A very long page name|A very long page name]] can be abbreviated to [[A very long page name]])
3) When the target page doesn't exists, the reader go to a page showing the system message "MediaWiki:Noarticletext".
I have some considerations: 1) What if the title attribute could be something more descriptive like "Search at Project (in Lang) for pages related to 'Page'"? The exact text could be translated for each language (or accordingly to the target project), in such way that "Page", the real name of "Project" (Wikipedia instead of "w", etc...) and the real name of "Language" could be variables $1, $2, etc...;
2) For example, if in a page of a wikibook we need to use various links to wiktionary and Wikinews, we would have to duplicate the total size of each link (the number of characters to be typed) just to have only the "Page" text shown. This is also bad for summaries, where we can not use a long text. Perhaps another _short_ syntax could be used to get "Page" instead of "Lang:Project:Page" without having to type (the possible very long) "Page" two times (maybe the prefixed colon [[:Lang:Project:Page]]?), in order to facilitate the integration between the content of the projects;
3)Compare the following: 3.1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_collaboration 3.2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search/education_collaboration and note that: 3.3) If the article "Education collaboration" exists, the two links carries the reader to it. 3.4) If not, 3.1 could be frustrating for a reader that has clicked in the link expecting to get (immediately) more information (remember, not every reader wants to became an collaborator, and that is fine) related to what he was reading. There are various reasons to the reader get the "Noarticletext" message, as in 3.1:
3.4.1) If the editor that created the interwiki link wrongly typed "colaboration" is his edit, the reader will get: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_colaboration Note that in this case, something like 3.2 is better than 3.1, for the reader: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search/education_colaboration I mean, he gets a message "Did you mean: education collaboration" and still have some related links shown in the search results. While the reader could prefer to go exactly to an Wikipedia article about education and collaboration, and because of a typo (that could take a long time to be corrected) he didn't, he could be happy to found another article in the results (maybe one more interesting than the article suggested by the editor who created the "wrong" link).
3.4.2) When writing, the editor simply imagine "There could be something about this at Wikipedia, and some news at Wikinews, let me create [[w:whis|this]] and [[n:whis|this]] links..." but instead of search at Wikipedia and Wikinews for the exact text to put in each link, he prefers to do a link using "keywords" like "education" and/or "collaboration". But these [interwiki] links are not "red [interwiki] links", so they could stay exactly as they were created for a long time, and bother some readers in the meantime...
3.4.3) Some editor do a search for "Education And Collaboration" at Wikipedia and find a page (say, "Education and collaboration"). So he creates a link (by copy and paste) pointing to "Education And Collaboration" that is not at Wikipedia, because of the "A" and "C". Then, although the search engine is case insensitive and the editor has found the article when he _searched_ for it at Wikipedia, the reader that will _click_ in the link will not go directly to the article. 3.4.4 And so on...
The enhancement of these features can be achieved easily by means of a template whit code similar to this: ---- Begin of Template:Wikt ---- [[wikt:Special:Search/{{{1}}}|<span title="Search at Wiktionary the meaning of '{{{1}}}'">{{{2|{{{1}}}}}}</span>]] ---- End of Template:Wikt ----
then, we can use: * {{wikt|word|text}} instead of [[wikt:word|text]] * {{wikt|word}} instead of [[wikt:word|word]] and each of the resulting links points to * http://en.wikitionary.org/wiki/Special:Search/word instead of * http://en.wikitionary.org/wiki/word Note that with "Special:Search/" links, the reader still gets a red link for easily create the page (if he wants to became an editor) when no result is found.
I would like to hear from you if, besides the need of use a template syntax just for create links, is there any other (technical/practical) disadvantages (advantages?) of using such behavior in the interwiki links (with or without using templates), and also if any of them is easy (and/or of interest) to implement internally in the MediaWiki.
Thanks, Helder
Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima wrote:
Hi!
Currently, when an editor create at some wikiproject an interwiki link using [[Lang:Project:Page|Text]] the readers get a link to a "Page" of "Project" (in the "Lang" language) and "Text" is shown in the link. Besides this:
- The "title" attribute of the <a> element is equals to (something
not very intuitive for readers): [[Lang:Project:Page]].
- If "Text" is equals to "Page", and we want/need to show only the
"Page" text, it is needed to use [[Lang:Project:Page|Page]] (although for local links [[A very long page name|A very long page name]] can be abbreviated to [[A very long page name]])
- When the target page doesn't exists, the reader go to a page
showing the system message "MediaWiki:Noarticletext".
I have some considerations:
- What if the title attribute could be something more descriptive
like "Search at Project (in Lang) for pages related to 'Page'"? The exact text could be translated for each language (or accordingly to the target project), in such way that "Page", the real name of "Project" (Wikipedia instead of "w", etc...) and the real name of "Language" could be variables $1, $2, etc...;
- For example, if in a page of a wikibook we need to use various
links to wiktionary and Wikinews, we would have to duplicate the total size of each link (the number of characters to be typed) just to have only the "Page" text shown. This is also bad for summaries, where we can not use a long text. Perhaps another _short_ syntax could be used to get "Page" instead of "Lang:Project:Page" without having to type (the possible very long) "Page" two times (maybe the prefixed colon [[:Lang:Project:Page]]?), in order to facilitate the integration between the content of the projects;
Seems you don't know the pipe trick. Type [[Lang:Project:Page|]] and it will be automatically expanded to [[Lang:Project:Page|Page]] on save.
2009/7/10 Platonides Platonides@gmail.com:
Seems you don't know the pipe trick. Type [[Lang:Project:Page|]] and it will be automatically expanded to [[Lang:Project:Page|Page]] on save.
Thank you Platonides! I really didn't know this trick.
So, wouldn't be better to avoid duplication of long texts making [[Lang:Project:Page|]] remains unexpanded on save (but still pointing to "Lang:Project:Page" and showing the text "Page")? Note that this is the behavior of [[/subpage/]] that generates the same output as [[/subpage|subpage]] but not the same wikitext (and this makes the wikicode more clear, so it is desirable). This is more likely to be expected by the users: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Pipe_trick&oldid=197... I mean, the wikitext is not supposed to change after we saves it... (unless I use {{subst:...}})
Also, since the wikicode changes, it is _not_ likely the new wiki users will found the syntax [[Foo|]] in the pages, so the only way they could know the *trick* is to find the Help page about it. If the [[Foo|]] were saved as is, this would be part of the syntax , not a trick...
(a related link: http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Manual_talk:Interwiki&oldid=2...)
Helder
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Helder Geovane Gomes de Limaheldergeovane@gmail.com wrote:
So, wouldn't be better to avoid duplication of long texts making [[Lang:Project:Page|]] remains unexpanded on save (but still pointing to "Lang:Project:Page" and showing the text "Page")?
Yes, the pipe trick shouldn't be part of the pre-save transform, it should be handled during the normal link parsing pass. Nobody has gotten around to changing this, but it should be fairly simple.
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