It appears that since r45973, there is an enhancement to MediaWiki that allows the software to follow double redirects, and conceivably triple- and higher-level redirects, up to a configurable limit ($wgMaxRedirects). This raises a few questions:
1) Should [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] be changed to show only those redirect chains that exceed $wgMaxRedirects in length, since those are the only ones that really need fixing under the current software?
2) If not, should there be a new Special: page to list such "excessive" redirect chains?
3) How can the users (not sysadmins) of a given wiki determine what the value of $wgMaxRedirects is for their wiki? In particular, what value is being used currently on enwiki and other WMF projects?
4) Shouldn't this configuration change have been announced to the user community of each project so that they could consider how it affects their internal policies on what types of redirects to allow?
Russ
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Russell Blau russblau@hotmail.com wrote:
It appears that since r45973, there is an enhancement to MediaWiki that allows the software to follow double redirects, and conceivably triple- and higher-level redirects, up to a configurable limit ($wgMaxRedirects). This raises a few questions:
- Should [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] be changed to show only those
redirect chains that exceed $wgMaxRedirects in length, since those are the only ones that really need fixing under the current software?
Probably. Sounds like a pretty good idea actually. If a wiki allows chains of 3 redirects, there's no point to tell them chains of 2 or 3 are bad, only 4+.
- If not, should there be a new Special: page to list such "excessive"
redirect chains?
Probably not. I'd say tweak the current one (a better name for it?)
- How can the users (not sysadmins) of a given wiki determine what the
value of $wgMaxRedirects is for their wiki? In particular, what value is being used currently on enwiki and other WMF projects?
The defaults for every setting are available for viewing on Mediawiki.org For this setting, the default appears to be 1, meaning that we keep long- standing behavior for the default. As for seeing your current settings, you can check out the configuration files at [1].
- Shouldn't this configuration change have been announced to the user
community of each project so that they could consider how it affects their internal policies on what types of redirects to allow?
Russ
New configuration options are introduced all the time. If the default settings don't change current behavior, they generally aren't announced widely. Keeping track of the various changes (on MW.org, subversion, or WP:POST on enwiki) is your best for knowing when something new is available to you.
-Chad
[1] - http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/ - CommonSettings and InitialiseSettings are the two places to look.
"Chad" innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote in message news:5924f50a0902020609q542047cfme84b9237eec381c4@mail.gmail.com...
- How can the users (not sysadmins) of a given wiki determine what the
value of $wgMaxRedirects is for their wiki? In particular, what value is being used currently on enwiki and other WMF projects?
The defaults for every setting are available for viewing on Mediawiki.org For this setting, the default appears to be 1, meaning that we keep long- standing behavior for the default. As for seeing your current settings, you can check out the configuration files at [1].
Hmm. Enwiki currently seems to be following double-redirects notwithstanding this setting. I am aware that the initial implementation of this fix contained some bugs that (we hope) will be fixed in the next software update, so probably best to wait until after that update is done before worrying further.
Russ
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Russell Blau russblau@hotmail.com wrote:
"Chad" innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote in message news:5924f50a0902020609q542047cfme84b9237eec381c4@mail.gmail.com...
- How can the users (not sysadmins) of a given wiki determine what the
value of $wgMaxRedirects is for their wiki? In particular, what value
is
being used currently on enwiki and other WMF projects?
The defaults for every setting are available for viewing on Mediawiki.org For this setting, the default appears to be 1, meaning that we keep long- standing behavior for the default. As for seeing your current settings, you can check out the configuration files at [1].
Hmm. Enwiki currently seems to be following double-redirects notwithstanding this setting. I am aware that the initial implementation of this fix contained some bugs that (we hope) will be fixed in the next software update, so probably best to wait until after that update is done before worrying further.
Russ
There were some regressions, but I believe they've been fixed.
-Chad
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Russell Blau russblau@hotmail.com wrote:
- If not, should there be a new Special: page to list such "excessive"
redirect chains?
Probably not. I'd say tweak the current one (a better name for it?)
ReReRedirects?
ExcessiveRedirects?
-Chad
On Feb 2, 2009 10:31 AM, "Stephen Bain" stephen.bain@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43...
- If not, should there be a new Special: page to list such "excessive"
redirect chains? > > ...
ReReRedirects?
-- Stephen Bain stephen.bain@gmail.com
_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia....
On Monday 02 February 2009 19:56:16 Chad wrote:
ExcessiveRedirects?
That's POV. MultipleRedirects?
On Feb 2, 2009 10:31 AM, "Stephen Bain" stephen.bain@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43...
- If not, should there be a new Special: page to list such "excessive"
redirect chains? > > ...
ReReRedirects?
NPOV doesn't apply to MediaWiki. :)
-Chad
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Nikola Smolenski smolensk@eunet.yu wrote:
On Monday 02 February 2009 19:56:16 Chad wrote:
ExcessiveRedirects?
That's POV. MultipleRedirects?
On Feb 2, 2009 10:31 AM, "Stephen Bain" stephen.bain@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote: >
On
Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43...
- If not, should there be a new Special: page to list such
"excessive"
redirect chains? > > ...
ReReRedirects?
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Monday 02 February 2009 21:33:26 Chad wrote:
NPOV doesn't apply to MediaWiki. :)
But, but, then we won't be able to use MediaWiki on Wikipedia! :)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Nikola Smolenski smolensk@eunet.yu wrote:
On Monday 02 February 2009 19:56:16 Chad wrote:
ExcessiveRedirects?
That's POV. MultipleRedirects?
Nikola Smolenski wrote:
On Monday 02 February 2009 21:33:26 Chad wrote:
NPOV doesn't apply to MediaWiki. :)
But, but, then we won't be able to use MediaWiki on Wikipedia! :)
WHAT?? You mere mortal are threatening to stop using the great software made by the developers?? How do you dare?
cabal@larousse$ /usr/local/bin/suicidenote -u Nikola -t 1233620512
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Do_NOT_bite_the_developers
2009/2/2 Nikola Smolenski smolensk@eunet.yu:
On Monday 02 February 2009 19:56:16 Chad wrote:
ExcessiveRedirects?
That's POV. MultipleRedirects?
Well, it's the POV of whoever set the maximum, is that a problem?
"Nikola Smolenski" smolensk@eunet.yu wrote in message news:200902022122.17631.smolensk@eunet.yu...
On Monday 02 February 2009 19:56:16 Chad wrote:
ExcessiveRedirects?
That's POV. MultipleRedirects?
On Feb 2, 2009 10:31 AM, "Stephen Bain" stephen.bain@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43...
- If not, should there be a new Special: page to list such
"excessive" redirect chains? > > ...
ReReRedirects?
How about Special:RedirectChains.
It might be useful to add an input box so you can specify a length to report on (e.g. entering 1 gives you all double-redirects, as current, entering a higher number restricts it to longer chains). It should, of course, default to the value of $wgMaxRedirects, and if set to another value indicate what the default is. I don't know how useful that would be, but I'm sure there are some uses, for example if you have had $wgMaxRedirects set to a high number but the server load is too great, and so you want to reduce it. This would allow you to find all affected redirects and fix them before you make the change to the setting.
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Mark Clements (HappyDog) < gmane@kennel17.co.uk> wrote:
"Nikola Smolenski" smolensk@eunet.yu wrote in message news:200902022122.17631.smolensk@eunet.yu...
On Monday 02 February 2009 19:56:16 Chad wrote:
ExcessiveRedirects?
That's POV. MultipleRedirects?
On Feb 2, 2009 10:31 AM, "Stephen Bain" stephen.bain@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43...
- If not, should there be a new Special: page to list such
"excessive" redirect chains? > > ...
ReReRedirects?
How about Special:RedirectChains.
It might be useful to add an input box so you can specify a length to report on (e.g. entering 1 gives you all double-redirects, as current, entering a higher number restricts it to longer chains). It should, of course, default to the value of $wgMaxRedirects, and if set to another value indicate what the default is. I don't know how useful that would be, but I'm sure there are some uses, for example if you have had $wgMaxRedirects set to a high number but the server load is too great, and so you want to reduce it. This would allow you to find all affected redirects and fix them before you make the change to the setting.
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
We don't store the entire redirect chain yet, so it's a little hard to count how many jumps are in it and sort by that, but it's certainly a good idea for an eventual implementation of it. I like the name, too.
-Chad
"Chad" innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote in message news:5924f50a0902020609q542047cfme84b9237eec381c4@mail.gmail.com...
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Russell Blau russblau@hotmail.com wrote:
...
- How can the users (not sysadmins) of a given wiki determine what the
value of $wgMaxRedirects is for their wiki? In particular, what value is being used currently on enwiki and other WMF projects?
The defaults for every setting are available for viewing on Mediawiki.org For this setting, the default appears to be 1, meaning that we keep long- standing behavior for the default. As for seeing your current settings, you can check out the configuration files at [1].
...
[1] - http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/ - CommonSettings and InitialiseSettings are the two places to look.
Chad: AFAICT, the default value of $wgMaxRedirects is 1 and is not changed in any of the WMF settings files you pointed me to. Still, the software is bypassing double-redirects on enwiki as of this morning; check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubya for an example. Perhaps a bug?
Russ
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org