Here's a patch that I think should be applied on all Wikipedias (after some testing). It changes only Cologne Blue skin. * no OK buttons for search. Every browser that exists allow submiting a form by pressing enter. * group headings in quickbar are centered * only "important" links in quickbar are in bold * removed link to main page from quickbar - already 3 other on page * link to special pages moved up * quick login for non-logged-in users (as Cologne Blue is default only on eo. now, it won't affect other Wikipedias at all, but I hope some day all wikis will go away from that ugly standard toward something nicer, like for example Cologne Blue) * | separator in topbar replaced by -, | looked too much like I and was not aligned well (the same problem on Konq, Moz and Opera, so it's not just browser problem). More readable now.
Changes visible on screen shot but not in patch: * anything related to underlining, font sizes and line heights changes
Patch applied to test.wikipedia.org. Have fun :)
Tomasz-
- only "important" links in quickbar are in bold
Different people think different things are important. Some people never use RC, I never use "Random page". If you think something needs to be highlighted more, I'd suggest playing with its position instead of its font style.
Also, if you want to turn underlining off for CB, the font color for links needs to be distinguishable from normal text color. Currently it barely is.
Patch applied to test.wikipedia.org.
This is in violation of our development policy. I understand that you have no alternative since you don't have CVS access, so I have asked Brion, Magnus and Lee to give it to you.
This is also a good example why changing test.wiki without discussion is bad; there is currently a discussion on wikipedia-l about slight changes to the default skin. Users who will try to review these changes will now see the Cologne Blue skin instead, and may assume that these are in fact the changes that we are talking about. I have therefore changed the default skin back to "Standard" on test.wiki and flushed the page cache.
Regards,
Erik
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 04:41:00AM +0200, Erik Moeller wrote:
Tomasz-
- only "important" links in quickbar are in bold
Different people think different things are important. Some people never use RC, I never use "Random page". If you think something needs to be highlighted more, I'd suggest playing with its position instead of its font style.
Without that it was much less readable. Edit is obviously more important than "Editing help", and RC and "Special pages" are obviously more important than "Image list" or "New pages"
Also, if you want to turn underlining off for CB, the font color for links needs to be distinguishable from normal text color. Currently it barely is.
Looks different enough to me, maybe it should be a little bit lighter.
Patch applied to test.wikipedia.org.
This is in violation of our development policy. I understand that you have no alternative since you don't have CVS access, so I have asked Brion, Magnus and Lee to give it to you.
No, this new policy is plain breaindead. There just has to be some wiki for random code changes, and test. has always been the one. If you want test. to be used for testing code meant to go to Wikipedias, some new wiki has to be started.
This is also a good example why changing test.wiki without discussion is bad; there is currently a discussion on wikipedia-l about slight changes to the default skin. Users who will try to review these changes will now see the Cologne Blue skin instead, and may assume that these are in fact the changes that we are talking about. I have therefore changed the default skin back to "Standard" on test.wiki and flushed the page cache.
We need more test wikis, that's the problem. Now can I please get test. for one more day back ? Testing is not over.
Tomasz-
Without that it was much less readable. Edit is obviously more important than "Editing help", and RC and "Special pages" are obviously more important than "Image list" or "New pages"
Actually, the latter is not obvious. The most important page from "Special pages" is already in the quickbar (Preferences), the rest is of limited interest to most users. I have no idea why "Image list" is in the quickbar at all, and "New pages" is used quite a lot by some people.
No, this new policy is plain breaindead. There just has to be some wiki for random code changes
Why? I frankly don't see the reason. If you want to make "random code changes", there's no need to use the Wikimedia servers. Use your own machine. If you want to demonstrate and test reasonably complete changes, commit to CVS unstable and update the test.wiki accordingly.
Regards,
Erik
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 05:20:00AM +0200, Erik Moeller wrote:
Tomasz-
Without that it was much less readable. Edit is obviously more important than "Editing help", and RC and "Special pages" are obviously more important than "Image list" or "New pages"
Actually, the latter is not obvious. The most important page from "Special pages" is already in the quickbar (Preferences), the rest is of limited interest to most users. I have no idea why "Image list" is in the quickbar at all, and "New pages" is used quite a lot by some people.
Cologne Blue has no special pages combobox, so it needs big link to Special Pages. Anyway, whatever the selection of links, using different fonts greatly improves readability.
No, this new policy is plain breaindead. There just has to be some wiki for random code changes
Why? I frankly don't see the reason. If you want to make "random code changes", there's no need to use the Wikimedia servers. Use your own machine. If you want to demonstrate and test reasonably complete changes, commit to CVS unstable and update the test.wiki accordingly.
Testing is part of developement process, not something to be done after developement is finished.
Sure I could use one of my machines for testing, but it has been always done on *.wikipedia.org, so why suddently change it ?
Tomasz-
Cologne Blue has no special pages combobox,
Neither does Standard after my last update.
so it needs big link to Special Pages.
That's not a logical conclusion. Whether links should be emphasized should depend on their frequency of use. You can't judge this frequency since it varies from user to user. Therefore any emphasis you add will likely piss off some users who have different priorities.
Testing is part of developement process, not something to be done after developement is finished.
True, and I expect you to test the code you write before committing it to CVS. Test.wiki is only for the final stage of testing by a larger audience, and certainly not for committing unfinished stuff. Otherwise we just end up with incomplete code like the interlanguage links, the category system etc.
Regards,
Erik
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 02:58:00PM +0200, Erik Moeller wrote:
Tomasz-
Cologne Blue has no special pages combobox,
Neither does Standard after my last update.
Then you're the one who's going to piss many users ;-)
so it needs big link to Special Pages.
That's not a logical conclusion. Whether links should be emphasized should depend on their frequency of use. You can't judge this frequency since it varies from user to user. Therefore any emphasis you add will likely piss off some users who have different priorities.
It's seriously much less individual issue that you claim it to be. Show me a person who uses "Edit help" more often than "Edit", and "List images" more often than "Recent Changes". Well, boldening link to Special pages may be debatable, but I don't see any good reasons against it.
In any case it looks much better than "everything bold".
Testing is part of developement process, not something to be done after developement is finished.
True, and I expect you to test the code you write before committing it to CVS. Test.wiki is only for the final stage of testing by a larger audience, and certainly not for committing unfinished stuff. Otherwise we just end up with incomplete code like the interlanguage links, the category system etc.
If you meant testing if it doesn't throw PHP parse error, then yeah, I've done that on local machine. But for styles you need lot of wide audience testing, and modify it in process.
Tomasz-
Neither does Standard after my last update.
Then you're the one who's going to piss many users ;-)
I distracted them with useless style changes.
It's seriously much less individual issue that you claim it to be. Show me a person who uses "Edit help" more often than "Edit",
Edit is generally bolded, even in the standard skin. We can agree on that.
and "List images" more often than "Recent Changes".
Cunctator said, IIRC, that he almost never uses RC. There are probably others. I guess you don't really need it if you only care about your own edits and a few subjects in your watchlist. As I said, I think there's no point of image list being in the quickbar at all.
If you meant testing if it doesn't throw PHP parse error, then yeah, I've done that on local machine. But for styles you need lot of wide audience testing, and modify it in process.
Maybe, but if you want a major test and feedback cycle, then we should at first finish the current cycle so that we can get all wikis running the latest code.
Regards,
Erik
Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:
Sure I could use one of my machines for testing, but it has been always done on *.wikipedia.org, so why suddently change it ?
I haven't been here for long, so I don't know about earlier, but from what I have read on this list since I'm here, other developers have been using their own machine all the time (esp. for big things like the TOC and category stuff), like I have (for the little apostrophe thing, remember?).
Timwi
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