On 11/4/05, wikitech-l-request(a)wikimedia.org
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Re: [WikiEN-l] Ratings again (Ray Saintonge)
> 2. still active:
www.tocatch.info (?? ???)
> 3. Re: rcid in default sig? (was LiquidThreads) (Rowan Collins)
> 4. Re: rcid in default sig? (was LiquidThreads) (Rowan Collins)
> 5. Re: Edit bailouts (Tim Starling)
> 6. Re: Fwd:Shock site bot (Brian)
> 7. Re: Re: LiquidThreads (David Reynolds)
> 8. Re: still active:
www.tocatch.info (Brion Vibber)
> 9. Re: Re: Edit bailouts (Angela)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:05:15 -0800
> From: Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: [WikiEN-l] Ratings again
> To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <436A6D7B.4010609(a)telus.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> David Gerard wrote:
>
> >Ray Saintonge wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Magnus Manske wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I still prefer a 0-10 range of ratings. I think a decimal
> >>>normalization would be easier to work with in any subsequent analysis
> >>>of results.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>One can set the range for each topic individually.
> >>
> >>
> >Mmm. See discussion at [[m:En validation topics]] and its archive -
> >too many choices of rating is probably a bad thing, because it's hard
> >to agree what a given value means. The test plan so far includes
> >probably far more variables than we'd want in any case ...
> >
> >
> The only variable is the individual subjective valuation of the
> article. The number of points in the range are not different variables,
> but different values for the same variable. To a large extent the size
> of the range is arbitrary because one range can be changed to another by
> a simple multiplication with a constant. What's the difference between
> a value of 3 on a 1-5 scale and a value of 5 on a 0-10 range?
>
> Since the value which an individual gives to an article is essentially
> subjective there is no reliable way to define the ratings that can be
> given. Statistical results tend to be self-normalizing.
>
> Ec
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 16:08:45 +0900 (JST)
> From: ?? ??? <wikiwatcher(a)yahoo.co.jp>
> Subject: [Wikitech-l] still active:
www.tocatch.info
> To: wikitech-l(a)wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <20051103070845.15521.qmail(a)web3108.mail.bbt.yahoo.co.jp>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp
>
> Hello again,
>
> I just wanted to say the site "www.tocatch.info" is still
> active and is STEALING the Wikipedia content as a live
> mirror (proxy).
>
> Please, if this is the wrong place to report this, where
> can I report it?
>
> On Sunday 30 October 2005 17:00, 田中 万太郎 wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > a
www.tocatch.info appears to be mirroring various
> > Wikipedias live, examples:
> >
> >
http://www.tocatch.info/en/Special:Recentchanges.htm
> > (ENGLISH)
> >
http://www.tocatch.info/ja/Special:Recentchanges.htm
> > (JAPANESE)
> >
> > Thankyou
>
> TANAKA
>
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 23:23:13 +0000
> From: Rowan Collins <rowan.collins(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] rcid in default sig? (was LiquidThreads)
> To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <9f02ca4c0511031523x1ba42fcev(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> te:On 03/11/05, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > Mindspillage wrote:
> > >On 11/2/05, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> Might I suggest an additional feature for mediawiki? How about
> > >> [{here}] which becomes a difflink to the edit where that tag was
> > >> inserted? People could add that to their signatures and thus every
> > >> post of their would be equipped to a handy difflink to an original
> > >> version.
> >
> > >I wouldn't mind seeing the timestamp on signatures be a diff link ,
> > >actually: makes it easy to see what was originally posted and doesn't
> > >add more to the standard sig.
> >
> > Thoroughly excellent idea! (Does an edit know what its revision ID is
> > going to be while it's saving?)
>
> I'd been pondering this myself recently, but it looks like it doesn't
> - and probably can't - know its ID soon enough. Not only does the
> Revision object not get an ID until the insert function (obviously too
> late for text manipulation) but it has to actually be saved in MySQL
> for the autoincrement field to autoincrement.
>
> But having spent ages looking at that, I remember that we have
> functions for doing diffs based on "next revision after this". So,
> it's not pretty, but presumably a pre save transform (e.g. a
> signature) could embed a link to a diff between the revision *before*
> itself and "whatever revision comes next" - which in all but the
> oddest cases will be the revision you're in the middle of saving...
> So, sort of like "/index.php?oldid=$lastrevision&direction=next" where
> $lastrevision is the latest revision actually *saved* of that page.
>
> --
> Rowan Collins BSc
> [IMSoP]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 23:36:42 +0000
> From: Rowan Collins <rowan.collins(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] rcid in default sig? (was LiquidThreads)
> To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <9f02ca4c0511031536h3601a1e5x(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 03/11/05, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 11/3/05, Angela <beesley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It only sounds a good idea if these links are not going to show up in
> > > the edit text or in diffs. Signatures are getting bad enough now with
> > > all the <font>s and <big style="flashing nonsense">
</html> junk in
> > > them. I wouldn't want to read an edit page where full URLs appeared
> > > after every comment.
>
> Hm, I admit I hadn't thought of that...
>
> > I agree that difflinks are long an ugly. Perhaps it's come time for a
> > special difflink syntax which is nice and compact?
>
> Well, they could be made pretty compact just using templates (or, more
> sanely, a built-in "variable"). It seems you need the article name
> when using relative diffs (see my previous message), so a template
> "nextdiff" of the form:
>
> [{{fullurl:{{PAGENAME}}|diff=next|oldid={{{1}}}}} {{{2}}}]
>
> (first parameter is the pre-change revision, the second the text to
> display as the link) could appear in the wikisource as:
>
> {{nextdiff|21221469|Diff}}
>
> Make this an inbuilt variable for portability and performance, and
> combine it with the idea someone mentionned of linking the date in the
> signature (or part of it?) and it ought not to be too intrusive, I
> think.
>
> --
> Rowan Collins BSc
> [IMSoP]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 11:37:20 +1100
> From: Tim Starling <t.starling(a)physics.unimelb.edu.au>
> Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Edit bailouts
> To: wikitech-l(a)wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <dkeafq$mi9$1(a)sea.gmane.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Evan Prodromou wrote:
> > I guess there's not an easy way to find out how many people are bailing
> > out of edits that they really want to make... except maybe to ask them.
> > Perhaps a pop-up poll for folks who navigate away from an edit page in
> > some way besides saving? Kind of intrusive but it might have interesting
> > results.
>
> You could tell the difference between red link clicks and edit tab clicks by
> checking the referrer, or by adding an extra parameter to the URL. Detecting
> when the user starts typing with javascript could be another measure,
> although some might consider that sort of thing to be an invasion of
> privacy. It would certainly be an invasion of privacy to send text from the
> edit box to the server before the user clicks "save", unless they are
warned
> in advance.
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 00:18:33 -0500
> From: Brian <brian0918(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd:Shock site bot
> To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)wikimedia.org>
> Cc: brett.gustafson(a)gmail.com, Wikitech-L <wikitech-l(a)wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <43699DA9.1040205(a)gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I do know of one anon that has refused to start an account and has
> contributed extensively to evolution/species-related articles. He has
> turned his user page into a detailed watchlist (linked below; each of
> those dots is a watched page). He also appears to grasp policy and
> guidelines more than most Wikipedians. Check out an old copyedit of
> his:
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Great_Lakes_Storm_of_1913&dif…
>
>
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:68.81.231.127
>
> Several people have pleaded on his talk page for him to start an account.
>
>
> SJ wrote:
>
> >Forwarded from Wikien-l.
> >
> >I wonder if it would be useful to have an index of external URLs that
> >supports throttling of the # of times per day a given base URL can be
> >added to WP sites...
> >
> >SJ
> >
> >
> >PS - this is my favorite part -- "I'm a regular wikipedia user
> >although i don't have an account here" I wonder how many people
> >consider themselves 'regular uers' -- and how many of those actually
> >read user and policy pages...
> >
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >From: Brett Gustafson <brett.gustafson(a)gmail.com>
> >Date: Nov 2, 2005 7:22 PM
> >Subject: [WikiEN-l] Shock site bot
> >To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
> >
> >
> >I recently recieved this message from a user:
> >"I'm a regular wikipedia user although i don't have an account here.
I think
> >this site is great and it really helps me with my college work. But I
> >recently heard of these people that were talking about wikipedia that they
> >were all programming a hack for it. So after a little while I found it was a
> >spider to hunt down all the pages links and change them to shocks site links
> >or something along those lines. I didn't know who to tell so I just thought
> >I'd tell an administrator as they might know who to tell or what to do. Just
> >giving an advanced warning so you might be able to do something to protect
> >this wonderful resourse. Apparently they permenantly change their ip address
> >using some thing (a bit beyond me). Something like that. I just didn't know
> >what to do. I hope I didn't embaress myself here. Thanks for your
time."
> >
> >Brett
> >_______________________________________________
> >WikiEN-l mailing list
> >WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org
> >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> >http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> >
> >--
> >++SJ
> >_______________________________________________
> >Wikitech-l mailing list
> >Wikitech-l(a)wikimedia.org
> >http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:21:06 -0600
> From: David Reynolds <naeblis(a)kc.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: LiquidThreads
> To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <436AA972.6080100(a)kc.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Ivan Krstic wrote:
> > Timwi wrote:
> >
> >>Secondarily I want to be able to fix spellings, in the faint hope that
> >>it will help some people learn better spelling. Again, the only people
> >>who would object to this would be people who can't spell and are
> >>therefore unsuitable for writing an encyclopedia anyway.
> >
> >
> > Totally broken reasoning.
> >
> >
> >>I've heard many reasons for maliciously changing an article. Yet
> >>articles on Wikipedia tend to get better. Interesting, innit?
> >
> >
> > That's an irrelevant non-answer to Ryan's question.
> >
> >
> >>No, the purpose of this was to test your reaction. You fell right for it
> >>exactly the way I expected: you picked up only on the emotional side of
> >>the paragraph (taking it as an insult)
> >
> >
> > Do you understand how conceited this makes you sound?
> >
> >
> >>And this highlights what I mean: you (and many other people) only object
> >>to being able to edit comments because it somehow "feels" wrong.
You
> >>can't really say why it *is* wrong.
> >
> >
> > You need to relax, and start spending less time writing
> > borderline-offensive e-mail to people who are trying to reason
> > constructively, and more time thinking about what they're saying. I can
> > tell you exactly why it *is* wrong: comments are not Wikipedia articles,
> > even if you seem to be constantly confounding the two.
> >
> > A Wikipedia article isn't signed by a single person's name. It
doesn't
> > represent the views of an individual, but tries to become an objective
> > reflection of its topic. As Brion puts it, a wiki is a place where you
> > let wackos edit your site, and with luck, the good wackos outnumber the
> > bad. The iterative editing process is a good way to ensure eventual NPOV
> > conformance.
> >
> > Comments are absolutely different. They are written and signed by a
> > single person, represent only that person's views, have no requirement
> > of adherence to a NPOV, and that means that essentially none of the
> > reasons that Wikipedia articles are editable by everyone apply to them.
> > If allowing comment cross-editing was in any way beneficial, the popular
> > web-based discussion forums with tens of millions of posts would have,
> > without a doubt, adopted such a model quite a while ago. There's a
> > reason they haven't done it.
> >
> > I am not interested in continuing this discussion further, so please
> > refrain from writing a snide reply that questions my intelligence so as
> > to "test my reaction".
> >
>
> Agreed. This discussion has degenerated, on Timwi's side at least, to ad
> hominem attacks and straw man arguments. Why do you persist in saying
> that opinions on talk pages have the same ownership/POV claims as
> articles in mainspace?
>
> David, new but dismayed
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 17:09:32 -0800
> From: Brion Vibber <brion(a)pobox.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] still active:
www.tocatch.info
> To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <436AB4CC.1020004(a)pobox.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp"
>
> 田中 万太郎 wrote:
> > Hello again,
> >
> > I just wanted to say the site "www.tocatch.info" is still
> > active and is STEALING the Wikipedia content as a live
> > mirror (proxy).
>
> Killed it.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @
pobox.com)
>