Hi, I've encountered that texvc is not doing conversion to MathML - at least I've never seen MathML in Wikipedia. This has some drawbacks: * its not as accessible, because blind users will have to read TeX code. * its not scaleable * its not linkable
ie. while the accessibility and scaleability seems to be a minor issue to me, I want the possibility of linking and annotation.
Examine writing <math>U = 12,\mathrm{V}</math> but the meaning is <math>U = 12 \it \unit{V}</math>, where "\it" is the "⁢" or "⁢", but its not working in this way. Further I want also linking: <math>\link[wp:Voltage]{U} = 12 \it \unit{\link[wp:Volts]{V}}</math>
This should result in the following MathML code: <m:math> <m:mi xref:href="wp:Voltage">U</m:mi> <m:mo>=</m:mo> <m:mn>12</m:mn> <m:mo>⁢</m:mo> <m:mi xref:href="wp:Volts" class="unit">V</m:mi> </m:math>
I think texvc's further development should address this issue, while rendering TeX as bitmap should only get used for more special things like graphs, and musical notes.
Also chemical molecules should get represented as ChemML; some graphs could get represented as GML or a similar dialect. The desicion if the user gets bitmaps or XML should be based only on the user settings and not on the browser, because the browsers can get rendering plugins if needed.
ys, MovGP0
On 7/1/07, Mov GP 0 movgp0@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, I've encountered that texvc is not doing conversion to MathML - at least I've never seen MathML in Wikipedia. This has some drawbacks:
- its not as accessible, because blind users will have to read TeX code.
- its not scaleable
- its not linkable
There was (is?) a project to allow MathML to work properly. However, needless to say, it cannot be turned on by default until there's quite a lot more common MathML support than there is presently. So most viewers will not see any benefit from linking or annotation, and there is not a terrible lot of impetus for anyone to work on this for the next, say, five years. But this is open-source and if anyone wants to, they can feel free. I'm sure commit access could be arranged.
(Incidentally, I find it hard to believe that MathML is more accessible than images. Are there any screen-readers that understand MathML? Our alt text for the images sucks, but at least it's there for people who speak TeX.)
2007/7/1, Simetrical Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com:
On 7/1/07, Mov GP 0 movgp0@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, I've encountered that texvc is not doing conversion to MathML - at least I've never seen MathML in Wikipedia. This has some drawbacks:
- its not as accessible, because blind users will have to read TeX code.
- its not scaleable
- its not linkable
There was (is?) a project to allow MathML to work properly. However, needless to say, it cannot be turned on by default until there's quite a lot more common MathML support than there is presently.
There is MathML support in all important browsers: * Mozilla Firefox * Netscape * Opera * Safari * InternetExplorer using Plugins In the case of the IE browser, code might identify this and offer a download to the plugins automatically[5].
So most viewers will not see any benefit from linking or annotation, and there is not a terrible lot of impetus for anyone to work on this for the next, say, five years. But this is open-source and if anyone wants to, they can feel free. I'm sure commit access could be arranged.
I'm often running into the problems of texvc - ie. for the article Gozintograph[6] I wanted to create a very big "\begin{ptable}", but the function is not capable of such large fences, because it can only choose from a set of fences rather then drawing them parametrically as the mathml browsers are doing. A possible solution might be to use others and more TeX libraries.
But I think it would have more sense to do both: migrate to MathML for mathematical markup and use a bigger TeX distribution like MiKTeX. The advantage of using MiKTeX is, that it is very complete and also available for Windows, so also students using Windows can use it. It should be very simple to extend the TeX distribution with additional packages.
Unforunately I'm a .NET developer which means that I can't really contribute. I'm also to much into other projects. This is why I'm making suggestions rather than doing it myself.
(Incidentally, I find it hard to believe that MathML is more accessible than images. Are there any screen-readers that understand MathML? Our alt text for the images sucks, but at least it's there for people who speak TeX.)
There are some screenreaders: * MathPlayer[1] is currently extended for speech output with sync. highlighting * AudioMath[2] provides MathML to speech conversation * BraMaNet[3] converts MathML to French mathematical Braille * LAMBDA Project[4] converts MathML from and into localized mathematical Braille
Reading TeX Source is often overly complex written and hard to learn if you can't see how the code results in a grahical meaning. Thus, alternate text as in
<math alt="E is equal to m times c square">E=m,\mathrm{c}^{2}</math>
might be a better idea. Maybe we could also exploit ideas from multilangual wiki:
{{ifeq: {{MATHML}} | true | <math>E=m,\mathrm{c}^{2}</math> | E is equal to m times c square }}
where MATHML is a user setable environmental variable. A typical use pattern might be: {{math | <math>E=m,\mathrm{c}^{2}</math> | [[Energy|E]] = [[Mass|m]] · [[Speed of light|c]]<sup>2</sup> }}
ys, MovGP0
[1] http://www.dessci.com/accessibility [2] http://handy.univ-lyon1.fr/projets/bramanet/ [3] http://handy.univ-lyon1.fr/MH/bramanet/bramanet.php [4] http://www.lambdaproject.org/ASP/index.aspx?IDMenuAPP=0 [5] http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathplayer/author/creatingsites.htm [6] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gozintograph
On Jul 1, 2007, at 4:16 PM, Simetrical wrote:
There was (is?) a project to allow MathML to work properly. However, needless to say, it cannot be turned on by default until there's quite a lot more common MathML support than there is presently.
Working TeX-to-MathML conversion, integrated with MediaWiki, has been around for quite a while now courtesy of David Harvey. Here's a demo:
http://wiki.blahtex.org/go/Main_Page
Last I talked to Brion, transitioning from texvc to blahtex was mostly being blocked by lack of time.
-- Ivan Krstić krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu | GPG: 0x147C722D
On 7/2/07, Ivan Krstić krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu wrote:
On Jul 1, 2007, at 4:16 PM, Simetrical wrote:
There was (is?) a project to allow MathML to work properly. However, needless to say, it cannot be turned on by default until there's quite a lot more common MathML support than there is presently.
Working TeX-to-MathML conversion, integrated with MediaWiki, has been around for quite a while now courtesy of David Harvey. Here's a demo:
http://wiki.blahtex.org/go/Main_PageLast I talked to Brion, transitioning from texvc to blahtex was mostly being blocked by lack of time.
-- Ivan Krstić krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu | GPG: 0x147C722D
Hoi, "being blocked by lack of time" and rightly so. It seems to me that it is time to finish some projects before new ones, however deserving, are started. Thanks, GerardM
2007/7/2, Ivan Krstić krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu:
On Jul 1, 2007, at 4:16 PM, Simetrical wrote:
There was (is?) a project to allow MathML to work properly. However, needless to say, it cannot be turned on by default until there's quite a lot more common MathML support than there is presently.
Working TeX-to-MathML conversion, integrated with MediaWiki, has been around for quite a while now courtesy of David Harvey. Here's a demo:
http://wiki.blahtex.org/go/Main_PageLast I talked to Brion, transitioning from texvc to blahtex was mostly being blocked by lack of time.
-- Ivan Krstić krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu | GPG: 0x147C722D
Hi, I would say that \blah{TeX} is missing the support of some elmentar features including matrices. I share my meaning with GerardM - the project should get finnished b4 starting a new one.
ys, MovGP0
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