-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Moin Alexander, (Maybe we should continue this offlist :) On Sunday 15 January 2006 20:34, Alexander Bobrov wrote: I meant the rest of the skin (e.g. the "edit this article" docks, the menu box etc). They are all essential flat, so the buttons should "fit" in. Yes, but I think that if the entire design is "flat", then the buttons should stand out by color, or by being darker, or by having a different border, and not by being more 3D. It just looks inconsistent to me. (my opinion, of course :) For instance, if you color buttons bright orange, they will stand out, even though they do not have a "shading" or 3D effect. Nothing against 3D effects, but I think it doesn't fit the default skin. Definitely better. Wrong URL? (the "all flat" url below is the same as this :) I really like it for being consistent. I would probably add a shade of color to the background, so that the buttons stand out more. Like so: http://bloodgate.com/tmp/wiki_buttons_bright.png This also adds a nice splash of color to the otherwise "silvery" page. A related side-note: Why make the buttons images? At first I thought they are so small because you monitor has a different resolution, but it then occured to me they are *always* that small (silly me :), because they are images with a fixed size. On my 1600x1200 resolution the buttons are really really tiny. It would be possible to replace them with some HTML code like so: <span class="button bold" onmouseddown="dosomething">B</span> <span class="button headline" onmouseddown="dosomething">A</span> <span class="button link" onmouseddown="dosomething">Link</span> ... That would allow the buttons to change with the texsize (height: 1em). It would also allow for the buttons to be colored differently in different skins. I think that would be worth it. [0] Best wishes, Tels [0] While we are at it, move the button definitions to a config file. It is a pain in the lower regions to add custom buttons back after each software update... - -- Signed on Sun Jan 15 21:39:16 2006 with key 0x93B84C15. Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/ PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email. "helft den armen vögeln" -- gegen kleinschreibung

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Bobrov wrote: Great work Alexander, I hope your changes will be included :) Emilio Gonzalez [Porao]

I think, it's not good idea to use English word "Link" on button. -- Alexander Sigachov

On 1/16/06, Alexander Bobrov &lt;director(a)indians.ru&gt; wrote: Something that conveys the idea without requiring you to know English, like having an italic letter conveys the idea of italic text, bold letter the idea of bold text etc B.t.w. these are quite nice, could you release them under the GPL-2 or later and provide the sourcefiles for them so they could potentially be included in MW?

Phil Boswell: Please, no cryptic symbols like that. The point of a toolbar is to make it intuitive to format wikitext. A newbie neither knows what double square brackets mean nor what "~" could stand for. The blue, underlined "Ab" works perfectly well. Sure, it's Latin characters, but they are internationally recognizable. Best, Erik

vAB> Something that conveys the idea without requiring you to know English, vAB> like having an italic letter conveys the idea of italic text, bold vAB> letter the idea of bold text etc Well, people really don't need to understand the meaning of the word "Link" because it is underlined and blue-colored, as a normal link could. The formatting speaks for itself, as in "B" and "i". So, one who against blue underlined "Link" must be against bold "B" and italicized "i" because these letters are for the English words "bold" and "italic". Now let us compare "Link" vs "Ab". What means "Link" for Wikipedia users? At first - who they are, and what language they understand? Let's refer to articles amount: English 920 000 Deutsch 341 000 Francais 224 000 Polski 176 000 Nihongo 173 000 Italiano 132 000 Svenska 128 000 Nederlands 122 000 Portugues 95 000 Espanol 86 000 + 26 languages with 10 000 = + ~40 with 1000 English 920K vs non-English ~1800K A double superiority [except for, e.g. I am Russian and it is me who proposes English word ;) ]. We have one part of comprehensible "Links" against two parts of obscure. 1 to 2, 33%. But with "Ab" we have 100% of nonsense, for both English-speakers and everybody else. What is it: an abbreviation for "abdominal"? =) I have another idea though. The link we discuss is _the inner Wiki link_ so why don't we use neutral (multilingual in our case) word Wiki, which gives people another useful hint? =) vAB> B.t.w. these are quite nice, could you release them under the GPL-2 or vAB> later and provide the sourcefiles for them so they could potentially vAB> be included in MW? Of course, I will. I made these buttons specially for Wikipedia. But to my shame I never used GPL before. How can I do it? Please be my guide. Alex Bobrov____________________________________________ Indian Summer Studio http://indians.ru/ ...................................................................... Elephants are just like field mice, but with deeper voices. ......................................................................

RC> See http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html RC> But for present purposes, just posting a link to the source files RC> (i.e. the most editable form of your images) to this list, with a RC> comment like "these are hereby under the GPL" is fine, since the idea RC> is to incorporate them into MediaWiki, at which point the general RC> licensing info will cover them anyway. These are hereby under the GPL: http://tactics.indians.ru/tmp/wiki/wiki_buttons.zip [2 PSD files in 1MB ZIP archive] Alex Bobrov____________________________________________ Indian Summer Studio http://indians.ru/ ...................................................................... This product was cruelly tested on small, furry animals. ......................................................................

Alexander Bobrov wrote: As you'll recall, several people expressed a dislike for them and there was no consensus in favor. They don't seem to fit in to the MonoBook style any better than the current ones; if anything they're more "3-d" and fit in worse, so I wouldn't recommend including them. -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)