Hi everybody,
at last weekend's Hackathon I investigated how to get into bug management/triaging in Wikimedia. I'd like to propose some changes in order to streamline, harmonize and centralize documentation in order to make it easier to get involved:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#Improvi...
Feedback, comments, criticism on this draft are very welcome.
andre
Le 09/06/12 21:11, Andre Klapper a écrit :
Hi everybody,
at last weekend's Hackathon I investigated how to get into bug management/triaging in Wikimedia. I'd like to propose some changes in order to streamline, harmonize and centralize documentation in order to make it easier to get involved:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#Improvi...
Feedback, comments, criticism on this draft are very welcome.
That discussion is now in the village pump archives:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_100...
Yeah long link sorry.
Maybe we could move to mediawiki.org for later reference?
Hi everybody,
being WMF's new "bug wrangler" I would like to improve documentation on bug management/triaging in order to make it easier to get involved and understand how things work. As a side effect it will also help myself in understanding things better. :) Current content feels inconsistent and scattered across several wikis, plus after reorganizing I'd like to extend it with some pages I consider useful (e.g. starting a proper Triage Guide, and a page listing URLs of upstream bugtrackers).
My (old but still valid) proposal is available at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29/Archive...
Not sure if I should also post this again in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump (and not sure in which section)?
If anybody has (good/bad) recent experience with trying to get into bug management: Your feedback is very welcome.
No comments means nobody has strong feelings and I'll simply go ahead. ;)
Cheers, andre
Hi Andre,
Can we please change the venue for this discussion? English Wikipedia is not used and/or visited by all.
It seems to me that Meta-Wiki or mediawiki.org is a better place for this. Unless you're trying to establish English Wikipedia's documentation on bug management/triaging, in which case I misunderstood the scope of your proposal, for which I apologise.
Cheers!
Siebrand
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Andre Klapper aklapper@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everybody,
being WMF's new "bug wrangler" I would like to improve documentation on bug management/triaging in order to make it easier to get involved and understand how things work. As a side effect it will also help myself in understanding things better. :) Current content feels inconsistent and scattered across several wikis, plus after reorganizing I'd like to extend it with some pages I consider useful (e.g. starting a proper Triage Guide, and a page listing URLs of upstream bugtrackers).
My (old but still valid) proposal is available at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29/Archive...
Not sure if I should also post this again in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump (and not sure in which section)?
If anybody has (good/bad) recent experience with trying to get into bug management: Your feedback is very welcome.
No comments means nobody has strong feelings and I'll simply go ahead. ;)
Cheers, andre -- Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Mediawiki.org please. mw.o is host to much more technical discussion than meta.
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Siebrand Mazeland (WMF) < smazeland@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Hi Andre,
Can we please change the venue for this discussion? English Wikipedia is not used and/or visited by all.
It seems to me that Meta-Wiki or mediawiki.org is a better place for this. Unless you're trying to establish English Wikipedia's documentation on bug management/triaging, in which case I misunderstood the scope of your proposal, for which I apologise.
Cheers!
Siebrand
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Andre Klapper aklapper@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everybody,
being WMF's new "bug wrangler" I would like to improve documentation on bug management/triaging in order to make it easier to get involved and understand how things work. As a side effect it will also help myself in understanding things better. :) Current content feels inconsistent and scattered across several wikis, plus after reorganizing I'd like to extend it with some pages I consider useful (e.g. starting a proper Triage Guide, and a page listing URLs of upstream bugtrackers).
My (old but still valid) proposal is available at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29/Archive...
Not sure if I should also post this again in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump (and not sure in which section)?
If anybody has (good/bad) recent experience with trying to get into bug management: Your feedback is very welcome.
No comments means nobody has strong feelings and I'll simply go ahead. ;)
Cheers, andre -- Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Siebrand Mazeland Product Manager Language Engineering Wikimedia Foundation
M: +31 6 50 69 1239 Skype: siebrand
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 12:25 +0200, Siebrand Mazeland (WMF) wrote:
Can we please change the venue for this discussion? English Wikipedia is not used and/or visited by all. It seems to me that Meta-Wiki or mediawiki.org is a better place
+1. When I added this to en.wp Village Pump I was rather clueless about WM infrastructure and the best place/audience for this. (Not that I'd understand the infrastructure much more nowadays yet. ;)
I'm going to move my outline to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management_Doc_Rewrite (or such) tomorrow and try to elaborate on the bullet points that seem unclear.
Seems like mediawiki.org will also be the place for the content itself (with potential interwiki redirects to mw.org).
andre
Hi,
On 10/10/2012 03:12 AM, Andre Klapper wrote:
being WMF's new "bug wrangler" I would like to improve documentation on bug management/triaging in order to make it easier to get involved and understand how things work.
- Having all the relevant information at mediawiki.org alone would be useful. The other wikis could just point there.
- Do we need all these pages with all that content with so much detail? I don't think so. It feels like you need to attend bugcademy before filing a bug, which is not true. A single landing page should be enough for making any regular bugzilla user useful and productive. Then you might need additional pages for Bugsquad team, admins etc but then they can sit in some corners clearly not for everybody.
- About Bugzilla awareness, what about using http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Bugzilla_Reports (or any better extension you might be aware of) to provide automatically updated listing of bugs in the pages where technical projects are being documented? We used this for wiki.maemo.org and I found it useful to advertise the work that needs to be done.
- And what about processing more data from the Bugzilla weekly report and show the trends over time? Everybody likes to see the progress (or lack of), the new bugs, the most important still open, etc. Like http://www.octofish.net/bugjar/ but adapted to the needs of the WM community.
-- Quim
Andre Klapper wrote:
being WMF's new "bug wrangler" I would like to improve documentation on bug management/triaging in order to make it easier to get involved and understand how things work. As a side effect it will also help myself in understanding things better. :)
It's never been very clear who the primary audience of Bugzilla is (or whether there even is a "primary" audience of Bugzilla). I think it will be difficult to write good documentation if you don't know whether your audience is primarily developers, primarily end-users, or some mixture.
I mention this because, for example, it may not be a great use of time to make bug filing documentation simpler if the real end goal is to have most end-users not use Bugzilla. There are further thoughts on this here: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27852.
That said, bug management is mostly distinct from bug filing. Your post to the village pump seems to encompass both, but I'm not sure if you're actually planning on trying to tackle both right now. (Your mailing list post seems to focus more on bug management/triaging.)
Current content feels inconsistent and scattered across several wikis, plus after reorganizing I'd like to extend it with some pages I consider useful (e.g. starting a proper Triage Guide, and a page listing URLs of upstream bugtrackers).
Sounds like a typical wiki content evolution. :-) The pages could all definitely use some love. Thanks for volunteering!
My (old but still valid) proposal is available at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29/Archive... 00#Improving_Documentation_on_Handling_Bug_Reports
This previous wiki post looks pretty good. It's very thorough and caught most of the pages that I thought of off-hand when I read your subject line.
I agree with Siebrand that you should use MediaWiki.org or Meta-Wiki for work like this. I'd also strongly recommend not deleting old pages (or old page titles). Redirects are cheap and are vastly more useful to readers.
MZMcBride
Hi,
On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 17:51 -0400, MZMcBride wrote:
It's never been very clear who the primary audience of Bugzilla is (or whether there even is a "primary" audience of Bugzilla). I think it will be difficult to write good documentation if you don't know whether your audience is primarily developers, primarily end-users, or some mixture.
Good point. IMHO there should be documentation for any audience that uses or might want to use Bugzilla, not only a primary one. This means: * "normal users" * module maintainers * developers * Bugzilla administrators * triagers
While "normal users" have other (currently easier) ways to provide feedback this shouldn't mean to not cover them in documentation how to use Bugzilla. Some people are brave! :)
That said, bug management is mostly distinct from bug filing. Your post to the village pump seems to encompass both, but I'm not sure if you're actually planning on trying to tackle both right now. (Your mailing list post seems to focus more on bug management/triaging.)
For bug filing we have https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug (which is somehow a copy of https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/page.cgi?id=bug-writing.html for reasons I don't know). I'd keep bug filing as a single page as nobody would read anything longer. Bug management is a bit more complicated though, yeah. :)
I agree with Siebrand that you should use MediaWiki.org or Meta-Wiki for work like this. I'd also strongly recommend not deleting old pages (or old page titles). Redirects are cheap and are vastly more useful to readers.
I'd try to redirect where it makes sense, however as content on pages will change because of merging and removing duplicated information it might make sense in some cases to redirect to a generic Bugzilla-related frontpage on the wiki instead.
andre
Hello Andre, I think you should move the inventory you posted on en.wiki to a subpage of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bugzilla so that it can be edited and discussed on talk. "Current situation" seems almost complete; on the contrary, the "Proposed pages" section is completely unclear to me, you should probably clarify which bullets make a page and on what wiki (which depends on the audience). When there is a plan, discussion on en.wiki will be appropriate only for the pages there which will need to be merged/interwiki-redirected elsewhere (Meta, I assume).
Nemo
On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 12:39 +0200, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
Hello Andre, I think you should move the inventory you posted on en.wiki to a subpage of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bugzilla so that it can be edited and discussed on talk.
Thanks! Moved now: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Wild_ideas
andre
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org