I there any list of halfway implemented CSS? E.g., (rgrep "allpagesredirect" "* .*" "~/mediawiki/" nil); emacs ./includes/specials/SpecialAllpages.php:337: $link = ( $s->page_is_redirect ? '<div class="allpagesredirect">' : '' ) . ./includes/specials/SpecialPrefixindex.php:161: $link = ($s->page_is_redirect ? '<div class="allpagesredirect">' : '' ) . is halfway implemented because it only appears in the .php files, but not in the standard CSS files. So allpagesredirect is #1, redirect-in-category is #2, where is the complete list of them, and how one best should use them? One has to poke around the CSS files that certain (e.g., Wikipedia.org) sites use to find bits and pieces of them, mixed together with a lot of other stuff. Can't there be a
/** Use the full set of CSS bindings, like Wikipedia does, without having to put them into Mediawiki:Common.css and maintain them on every single site of our WikiFamily. */ $wgUseFullCss = true;
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 6:48 PM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
I there any list of halfway implemented CSS? E.g., (rgrep "allpagesredirect" "* .*" "~/mediawiki/" nil); emacs ./includes/specials/SpecialAllpages.php:337: $link = ( $s->page_is_redirect ? '<div class="allpagesredirect">' : '' ) . ./includes/specials/SpecialPrefixindex.php:161: $link = ($s->page_is_redirect ? '<div class="allpagesredirect">' : '' ) . is halfway implemented because it only appears in the .php files, but not in the standard CSS files. So allpagesredirect is #1, redirect-in-category is #2, where is the complete list of them, and how one best should use them?
It's not CSS and it's not halfway-implemented. It's an HTML class, which is unused by the default software. It's something you can style if you want, but it's not styled by default.
There is no complete list, because there are infinitely many such classes. For instance, every article has a class depending on the page name. (Which actually doesn't make it infinite, since there are fewer than 255^255 possible page names . . . but you get the point.)
Can't there be a
/** Use the full set of CSS bindings, like Wikipedia does, without having to put them into Mediawiki:Common.css and maintain them on every single site of our WikiFamily. */ $wgUseFullCss = true;
Do you mean we should import some of Wikipedia's styles to the default software? Maybe, but which ones? It doesn't make sense to import all of them. Sometimes Wikipedia deliberately wants to be different than we want the default to look.
"AG" == Aryeh Gregor Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com writes:
AG> Do you mean we should import some of Wikipedia's styles to the default AG> software?
What I see here is "unfair insider trading".
The people writing MediaWiki are the many of the same people running Wikipedia.
They make MediaWiki emit the HTML half of the picture for the styles they want... ...then many times they implement the CSS other half only on Wikipedia. Much faster to test, looks great, problem solved...for them only.
The government should split you guys into two companies.
All those styles just end up jumbled into Wikipedia's private CSS.
Nobody even remembered to leave a default style for plain MediaWiki users.
AG> Sometimes Wikipedia deliberately wants to be different than we want AG> the default to look.
But more often the way you want the default to work just ended up in directly in Wikipedia's private CSS. E.g., https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26266 .
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 4:22 PM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
"AG" == Aryeh Gregor Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com writes:
AG> Do you mean we should import some of Wikipedia's styles to the default AG> software?
What I see here is "unfair insider trading".
The people writing MediaWiki are the many of the same people running Wikipedia.
They make MediaWiki emit the HTML half of the picture for the styles they want... ...then many times they implement the CSS other half only on Wikipedia. Much faster to test, looks great, problem solved...for them only.
The government should split you guys into two companies.
All those styles just end up jumbled into Wikipedia's private CSS.
Nobody even remembered to leave a default style for plain MediaWiki users.
AG> Sometimes Wikipedia deliberately wants to be different than we want AG> the default to look.
But more often the way you want the default to work just ended up in directly in Wikipedia's private CSS. E.g., https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26266 .
No, The people that write MediaWiki are mostly people that run it, backend wise, I know a few of the people don't contribute on any of the WMF projects at all.
Most of the custom CSS styles on the WMF projects are chosen by community consensus to be here, not because a random developer decide "Oh Hey, this would look cool", Nor are they "private" css styles, they are public and anyone that wants to can use them.
Also, on a personal note, can I ask you not to play with quotes like that and leave the ">" at the start of the line, Many email clients use this to detect that it's a quoted line and to display/style it appropriately.
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:22 AM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
They make MediaWiki emit the HTML half of the picture for the styles they want... ...then many times they implement the CSS other half only on Wikipedia.
Actually that's not how it happens at all. A *large number* of the classes and IDs on various <tags> in the output come because people open bugs requesting them.
A good number are left unstyled by default, because in the default software there isn't a compelling reason to use a particular style (not because we don't care about default MediaWiki, or want to just do it on Wikipedia's "private CSS" or any of the other absurd reasons you've claimed)
However, the classes and IDs are there to give you the *option* of styling it how you want.
-Chad
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:22 AM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
What I see here is "unfair insider trading".
The people writing MediaWiki are the many of the same people running Wikipedia.
They make MediaWiki emit the HTML half of the picture for the styles they want... ...then many times they implement the CSS other half only on Wikipedia. Much faster to test, looks great, problem solved...for them only.
That's not the case at all. The people who write these styles are totally different from the people who write the software. We just add lots of classes (too many, IMO . . .) so that people can easily customize the appearance however they want. They're extension points for CSS. Wikipedia users have styled some of these points, and I'm sure so have Wikia users, and users of other major wikis.
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Aryeh Gregor Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com wrote:
Can't there be a
/** Use the full set of CSS bindings, like Wikipedia does, without having to put them into Mediawiki:Common.css and maintain them on every single site of our WikiFamily. */ $wgUseFullCss = true;
Do you mean we should import some of Wikipedia's styles to the default software? Maybe, but which ones? It doesn't make sense to import all of them. Sometimes Wikipedia deliberately wants to be different than we want the default to look.
Sometimes CSS/JS that originates on Wikipedia *does* make it back into the software when it's deemed "generally useful" and lots of sites are copying it anyway. .
wikitable and the importScript() function come to mind.
If we think these particular styles for AllPages are generally useful, I'm fine with bringing them upstream.
-Chad
On 12/10/2010 01:48 AM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
I there any list of halfway implemented CSS? E.g., (rgrep "allpagesredirect" "* .*" "~/mediawiki/" nil); emacs ./includes/specials/SpecialAllpages.php:337: $link = ( $s->page_is_redirect ? '<div class="allpagesredirect">' : '' ) . ./includes/specials/SpecialPrefixindex.php:161: $link = ($s->page_is_redirect ? '<div class="allpagesredirect">' : '' ) . is halfway implemented because it only appears in the .php files, but not in the standard CSS files. So allpagesredirect is #1, redirect-in-category is #2, where is the complete list of them, and how one best should use them?
I was the one who added redirect-in-category (allpagesredirect existed before) in r22156. It's been a few years, but I think I left it unstyled by default both because allpagesredirect was that way already, and because I didn't want to get tangled up in endless debates about the appropriateness of the interface change.
I certainly wouldn't object to making both of those classes italicized by default in MediaWiki. Some sites do style them differently (for example, I think Commons makes them both small _and_ italic), but italics seem to be nearly universal among sites that style them at all, and those who don't want them can always override it.
/** Use the full set of CSS bindings, like Wikipedia does, without having to put them into Mediawiki:Common.css and maintain them on every single site of our WikiFamily. */ $wgUseFullCss = true;
It might be useful to have collections of popular but not universally desired CSS styles (whether provided by us or by third parties) available for convenient installation.
Technically, one could already turn a style sheet into an extension by bundling it with a short PHP file, but that's still unnecessarily complicated. It would be better if we could just tell wiki owners to download the CSS file and drop it into the right (common or skin-specific) directory, and it'd automagically start to work.
Something for the ResourceLoader folks, maybe? Or does such a feature already exist?
Ilmari Karonen wrote:
Technically, one could already turn a style sheet into an extension by bundling it with a short PHP file, but that's still unnecessarily complicated. It would be better if we could just tell wiki owners to download the CSS file and drop it into the right (common or skin-specific) directory, and it'd automagically start to work.
Something for the ResourceLoader folks, maybe? Or does such a feature already exist?
That would be very neat.
"P" == Platonides Platonides@gmail.com writes:
P> Ilmari Karonen wrote:
It would be better if we could just tell wiki owners to download the CSS file and drop it into the right (common or skin-specific) directory, and it'd automagically start to work.
OK, what I suppose we are now talking about is "I want to use Wikipedia's stylesheets on my wiki"
So we might try one of 1) Tell the browser to get it straight from Wikipedia, via some line in LocalSettings.php. Well even if we could tell the browser of the person reading our wiki to just get them from wikipedia, there are like 12 of them, with complicated URLs. I suppose on an English site, one would want to tell the browser to get http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&action=ra... On a zh site, get zh.wikipedia etc.
2) Add a cronjob to get http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&action=ra... etc. every night and stick in somewhere in skins/common/ or something. Or use edit.php to paste it into MediaWiki:Common.css ... keeping RecentChanges warm and filling up mysql with wasted revisions.
3) Put all those good styles that have been ending up only in Wikipedia back into Mediawiki where they belong.
(I use emacs' supercite package to do the quoting above.)
Btw, I haven't been following this discussion, but does everyone here know about the browser extension stylish, and userstyles.org? It's a very easy way for anyone to use whatever CSS they like.
My favourite: http://userstyles.org/styles/22809
Apologies if this wasn't helpful.
Steve
Can somebody please add the two <i>s of https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26266 Thanks.
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