This article was making its way around the testosphere this morning to much approval. Although I question some of the numbers cited, I like the overall description a lot, and since I have been having so many discussions about QA on various projects, I thought it would be of interest to wikitech: It's a short read, "The Confusion Around QA" http://www.headspring.com/2012/03/the-confusion-around-qa-why-doesnt-the-ind.... (Ian Baker in particular will I think recognize some of the points here that we covered in our own discussions)
On 03/30/2012 10:08:00 AM, Chris McMahon - cmcmahon@wikimedia.org wrote:
This article was making its way around the testosphere this morning to much approval. Although I question some of the numbers cited, I like the overall description a lot, and since I have been having so many discussions about QA on various projects, I thought it would be of interest to wikitech: It's a short read, "The Confusion Around QA" http://www.headspring.com/2012/03/the-confusion-around-qa-why-doesnt-the-ind.... (Ian Baker in particular will I think recognize some of the points here that we covered in our own discussions)
Thanks for a link to that nice little article.
I attribute the problem discussed to a failure of education, a failure to make clear the point of "computer programming" etc.
I also remember Dijkstra, who wrote, long ago now, "no amount of testing can prove the absence of defects", and made the unassailable case, at least for me, that defects had to be prevented by design. This is essentially the "discovery" that the author of the referenced note describes. I can not recommend "Notes on structured programming" enough. A pdf reprint of the book "Structured Programming", which contains it, is available through the ACM. Note that all 3 authors later, independently received Turing awards.
On 30/03/12 17:17, Jim Laurino wrote:
I also remember Dijkstra, who wrote, long ago now, "no amount of testing can prove the absence of defects", and made the unassailable case, at least for me, that defects had to be prevented by design. This is essentially the "discovery" that the author of the referenced note describes. I can not recommend "Notes on structured programming" enough. A pdf reprint of the book "Structured Programming", which contains it, is available through the ACM. Note that all 3 authors later, independently received Turing awards.
I think you mean these ones ? :) http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd02xx/EWD249.PDF
On 03/30/2012 05:58:49 PM, Platonides - Platonides@gmail.com wrote:
On 30/03/12 17:17, Jim Laurino wrote:
I also remember Dijkstra, who wrote, long ago now, "no amount of testing can prove the absence of defects", and made the unassailable case, at least for me, that defects had to be prevented by design. This is essentially the "discovery" that the author of the referenced note describes. I can not recommend "Notes on structured programming" enough
On 03/30/2012 05:58:49 PM, Platonides - Platonides@gmail.com wrote:
On 30/03/12 17:17, Jim Laurino wrote:
I also remember Dijkstra, who wrote, long ago now, "no amount of testing can prove the absence of defects", and made the unassailable case, at least for me, that defects had to be prevented by design. This is essentially the "discovery" that the author of the referenced note describes. I can not recommend "Notes on structured programming" enough. A pdf reprint of the book "Structured Programming", which contains it, is available through the ACM. Note that all 3 authors later, independently received Turing awards.
I think you mean these ones ? :) http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd02xx/EWD249.PDF
(I just tried to send this, but the text below appears to have been truncated, so I am trying again. My apologies if this is a duplicate)
Yes, that is the manuscript that was circulated, it makes the major points, but there was also eventually a small book published, which is now available again as part of the ACM Classic Book Series, see:
http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1243380&jmp=cit&coll=portal&dl...
The 3 authors are: O.-J. Dahl, E. W. Dijkstra, and C. A. R. Hoare
See the abstract by Hoare, on the ACM site, for a better appreciation of the book.
also, from the notes at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_programming
"This volume includes an expanded version of the Notes on Structured Programming, above, including an extended example of using the structured approach to develop a backtracking algorithm to solve the 8 Queens problem."
He expanded the original manuscript text in the book version at the suggestion of Niklaus Wirth to give an example of what he meant. It is such a good exposition of program development that I never bothered to actually run it, because it was so obvious that it would work correctly.
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