Based on the unstable branch, the article "MediaWiki:All_messages", used for maintaining msg values is an interesting idea, but I believe this would be better built as a dynamically built page, i.e. as "special:all_messages", rather than as a static page in the database.
This would get around the use of external links to edit the variables instead of internal links. Is this done to avoid the slow operation of resolving [[...]] at run time? The problem is that this makes the database non-portable between wiki sites.
This causes a problem at our site because we update the database on a development server and then move it to our working server. It means I have to manually edit this page to change all the external links marked up on that page.
It may also cause problems because WikiMedia distributes the wikipedia database. That database also will not be portable.
I notice that on the wikipedia site, the similarly sized article "Wikipedia:MediaWiki custom messages" does use internal links and seems to resolve in about the same amount of time.
We plan to actually change the variable '$wgServer' at run time. We want to present the server address differently if the user links to our site via our VPN intranet versus coming in through an external URL via the Internet. So, we rather not have the server domain defined in the database, but always dynamically determined.
By making All_messages a special page, you can hide it to all but sysops, developers and/or bureaucrats, who are probably the ones who should see and maintain these variables. It also will mean that, that as a developer, if you add variables to "$wgAllMessagesEn" this page will be up to date without having to run an install procedure.
I also notice this page is built from the variable '$wgAllMessagesEn'. If this were built as a 'special' page, it could build using the language the site actually represents.
Nick Pisarro
Nick Pisarro wrote:
Based on the unstable branch, the article "MediaWiki:All_messages", used for maintaining msg values is an interesting idea, but I believe this would be better built as a dynamically built page, i.e. as "special:all_messages", rather than as a static page in the database.
It seems that the title of [[MediaWiki:All messages]] is misleading, because it actually displays only the messages used by the software, not those inserted by users. (And, quite frankly, I don't think it should; [[Wikipedia:MediaWiki custom messages]] is already a huge mess, and desperately needs splitting up.)
A Special page would either (1) have a hardcoded list of messages to display (which would then need to be updated whenever a new message is introduced into the software; admittedly, this would be easier than updating [[MediaWiki:All messages]]; or (2) display *everything* in the MediaWiki namespace, which (as described above) would be horrendous.
Timwi
Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@Wikipedia.org writes:
It seems that the title of [[MediaWiki:All messages]] is misleading, because it actually displays only the messages used by the software, not those inserted by users. (And, quite frankly, I don't think it should; [[Wikipedia:MediaWiki custom messages]] is already a huge mess, and desperately needs splitting up.)
A Special page would either (1) have a hardcoded list of messages to display (which would then need to be updated whenever a new message is introduced into the software; admittedly, this would be easier than updating [[MediaWiki:All messages]]; or (2) display *everything* in the MediaWiki namespace, which (as described above) would be horrendous.
Actually, I was thinking you would basically port the alogrithm used in 'InitialiseMessages.inc' to contruct 'All_messages', which is to walk '$wgAllMessagesEn' and/or the appropriate language array, and catch the array value and the current database value.
So, only values in the language array would be shown.
Nick Pisarro
"Nick Pisarro" nickp@aperture.com wrote in message news:fc.00030d6f0120cb6500030d6f0120cb65.120ce5d@aperture.com...
Based on the unstable branch, the article "MediaWiki:All_messages", used for maintaining msg values is an interesting idea, but I believe this would be better built as a dynamically built page, i.e. as "special:all_messages", rather than as a static page in the database.
This would get around the use of external links to edit the variables instead of internal links. Is this done to avoid the slow operation of resolving [[...]] at run time? The problem is that this makes the database non-portable between wiki sites.
This causes a problem at our site because we update the database on a development server and then move it to our working server. It means I have to manually edit this page to change all the external links marked up on that page.
It may also cause problems because WikiMedia distributes the wikipedia database. That database also will not be portable.
I notice that on the wikipedia site, the similarly sized article "Wikipedia:MediaWiki custom messages" does use internal links and seems to resolve in about the same amount of time.
We plan to actually change the variable '$wgServer' at run time. We want to present the server address differently if the user links to our site via our VPN intranet versus coming in through an external URL via the Internet. So, we rather not have the server domain defined in the database, but always dynamically determined.
Yes, I think a special page listing the namespace contents would be a good idea. I'm not sure why I didn't do that to start with. But please note: soon, all custom messages will be moved to a different namespace (probably Template:) and only the internal messages will be in MediaWiki:.
By making All_messages a special page, you can hide it to all but sysops, developers and/or bureaucrats, who are probably the ones who should see and maintain these variables.
No, all users should be able to view, comment on, and ideally edit the MediaWiki namespace. Some messages cannot be edited by all users because either they are written in unfiltered HTML, or because changing them could make reversion difficult. Many non-sysops have made useful contributions to the MediaWiki namespaces, usually asking a sysop to make a given change for them.
It also will mean that, that as a developer, if you add variables to "$wgAllMessagesEn" this page will be up to date without having to run an install procedure.
I also notice this page is built from the variable '$wgAllMessagesEn'. If this were built as a 'special' page, it could build using the language the site actually represents.
Actually, the table is not simply built from $wgAllMessagesEn, it's built from the localised language file. However, localised language files are usually missing a few messages. The English language file is the only one which can be relied upon to be up-to-date with the features. So the script draws the keys from the English file, and the values from the local file if the message exists, or the English file if it does not. This allows sysops to maintain the interface translation, there's no need to update the localised language files anymore except for the various items which are not in the MediaWiki namespace.
-- Tim Starling
Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@Wikipedia.org writes:
Yes, I think a special page listing the namespace contents would be a good idea. I'm not sure why I didn't do that to start with. But please note: soon, all custom messages will be moved to a different namespace (probably Template:) and only the internal messages will be in MediaWiki:.
By making All_messages a special page, you can hide it to all but
sysops,
developers and/or bureaucrats, who are probably the ones who should see and maintain these variables.
I just wrote and uploaded a "SpecialAllmessages.php" page. It is slow to generate, but I do not know if it is significantly better or worse than loading "MediaWiki:All_messages".
Rows, where the current text is different than the default text, are shown with a different background color.
If this flies, 'InitialiseMessages.inc' should be modified not to generate "MediaWiki:All_messages" and perhaps should delete it out of existing databases.
I just noticed "MediaWiki" is a constant in the PHP file. This should be generalized.
No, all users should be able to view, comment on, and ideally edit the MediaWiki namespace. Some messages cannot be edited by all users because either they are written in unfiltered HTML, or because changing them could make reversion difficult. Many non-sysops have made useful contributions to the MediaWiki namespaces, usually asking a sysop to make a given change for them.
I require that a user must be a Sysop because it is so slow to generate this page. Someone may want to move it to more general access. It may be possible to speed up generation of this page, though not without making it more difficult to maintain.
Nick Pisarro
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org