In the spirit of the Wikimedia Movement Strategy, to be inclusive and support open knowledge, I applaud everyone to reach out to others in our community to help and support those who are not as fortunate to have the skills and knowledge you have.  We should be lifting each other up and stop pushing others down for trying to help the community.

If anyone out there is willing to contribute to the Technical Decision Forum process, please add your name to the list <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_decision_making/Community_rep_nomination>.

Brian and everyone else, if you have ideas on how we can have more community representation, please feel free to contact us at TDFsupport(a)wikimedia.org <mailto:TDFsupport@wikimedia.org>.  We need to come together with ideas and solutions and remove negativity from the process.

:

Kunal, I hear you but we only have 3 people who actually put the effort into applying for the position. We are appointing people who are at least trying to help. If you want to help in the process please feel free to put your name on the list. "I currently count about 33 out of 40 TDF members being WMF Staff. Over the past 90 days, only 49.4% of Gerrit patches came from WMF Staff[1]. My straw-dog proposal is that representation should be proportional, i.e. WMF Staff should make up less than half of the TDF, or whatever decision-making body replaces it." If you can't even get more than 2 people to apply for the positions what ideas do you have to increase the number of experienced representatives? So based on what you said we should only have 3 people as representatives, 2 from the community and 1 from WMF. "The negativity mostly exists because people (WMF staff and volunteers) having spent months asking questions about TDF composition and decisions and then were entirely ghosted." All the information is here <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_decision_making>. As I have pointed out before, If you have any questions please contact us at TDFsupport(a)wikimedia.org. "I am fine with saying the quiet part out loud. Most volunteer developers aren't interested in participating in the TDF because it treats them as second-class participants. Contrasting to TechCom, which for all its faults at least had public meetings that volunteers could participate in as equals, the implementation of the TDF literally left volunteers as an afterthought." I was not there but from what I understand TechCom did not achieve what it set out to do. If TechCom worked TDF would not exist. "At this point joining the TDF would only add the appearance of legitimacy to a closed, non-transparent system that is antithetical to Wikimedia development principles." I would see the community joining TDF to help improve and develop a better process. Without experiencing and having a firsthand understanding of how things are done, how can the community contribute to improving the process? TDF is not hiding anything from the community. We are always working on improving the process. We are learning to walk and there are times we stumbled but we need to pick ourselves up and try again. I am into productivity and improvement on what we are trying to do. I can see this cycle of frustration is not being productive at all. I would like for you and Brian to have a video conference call with me so we can see how to make this a productive process. I can clear a couple of hours this Friday for us. If you need more time please let me know. It would be even better if we can meet in person. If you are near the WMF office in San Francisco, I can book us a meeting room and I'll drive to the city to meet you. If you aren't in the area, I can fly out to wherever you are, on my own dime. I know we are all working toward the same goal, but our approaches are misaligned. We just need to work together. Email me directly, lnguyen(a)wikimedia.org, so we can set up a time to meet. To be transparent and productive, we can record our meeting, in person or on google meet, and share it with the community. Any community member who feels they have ideas to improve the process, please I invite you to email me directly. We can also have 1:1 if that makes it easier for you. I'm looking forward to meeting you and getting to know you better. See you soon, Linh On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 10:40 PM Kunal Mehta &lt;legoktm(a)debian.org&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/

Am 06.10.2022 um 13:38 schrieb Kate Chapman: I'm curious about the perception of TechCom being more community oriented than the new process. Oh I didn't mean to imply that. I was just sharing my experience that asking for nominations worked better than asking for volunteers -- for staff members. TechCom was in theory open to the community, but that never materialized. In that regard, TechCom didn't work any better than TDF.

Am 06.10.2022 um 08:52 schrieb Linh Nguyen: Kunal, I hear you but we only have 3 people who actually put the effort into applying for the position. We are appointing people who are at least trying to help. If you want to help in the process please feel free to put your name on the list. The original mail doesn't really make it clear what impact one might have by joining, or what would be expected of a member. Asking people to click a link for details loses most of the audience already. One thing that has worked pretty well in the past when we were looking for people to join TechCom was to ask for nominations, rather than volunteers. We'd then reach out to the people who were nominated, and asked them if they were interested. Self-nominations were of course also fine. Another thing that might work is to directly approach active volunteer contributors to production code. There really aren't so many really active ones. Ten, maybe. -- Daniel Kinzler Principal Software Engineer, Platform Engineering Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/

(Sorry to "hijack" the thread, I am not personally involved in TDF but

The original email linked to

While I'm well aware that info a click away is not optimal, I'm

That page was marked for translation instead, and among other things, it

We had /also/ asked for recs to a few dozens colleagues, and none of the

Interested to hear what could have been done differently.) On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 1:06 PM Daniel Kinzler &lt;dkinzler(a)wikimedia.org&gt;

> > Am 06.10.2022 um 08:52 schrieb Linh Nguyen: > > Kunal, > I hear you but we only have 3 people who actually put the effort into

> > The original mail doesn't really make it clear what impact one might

> > One thing that has worked pretty well in the past when we were looking

> > Another thing that might work is to directly approach active volunteer

> > -- > Daniel Kinzler > Principal Software Engineer, Platform Engineering > Wikimedia Foundation > > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org >

-- ________________________________ <

Erica Litrenta (she/her) Senior Manager, Community Relations Specialists (Product) Wikimedia Foundation